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A set of unverified hashes that you hope only came from NCMEC. Telecoms do this on their own devices - not yours. Apple just opened the door for constant searc

A set of unverified hashes that you hope only came from NCMEC. Telecoms do this on their own devices - not yours. Apple just opened the door for constant searches of your digital devices. If you think it will stop at CSAM you have never read a history book - the single biggest user of UKs camera system originally intended for serious crimes are housing councils checking to see who didn't clean up after their dog.

jolux 5y ago
> A set of unverified hashes that you hope only came from NCMEC. Telecoms do this on their own devices - not yours. Yes, those are the main things we’re concerned about. > Apple just opened the door for constant searches of your digital devices. Specifically, it opens the door to them scanning content which is then end-to-end encrypted, which is the main problem. I think the jury is out on whether this capability will be abused. Apple has said they will reject requests to use it for other purposes, but who really knows whether they will end up being forced to add hashes that aren’t CSAM? I agree that both of these are potential problems.
- vorpalhex 5y ago
  Apple gave up in the face of China. Why not the US too?
  - jolux 5y ago
    Because they have legal avenues in the US that they don’t have in China? Easy.
    - vorpalhex 5y ago
      They had a legal avenue in China called leaving. That was not profitable though, so they compromised their ethics in exchange for money.
albertgoeswoof 5y ago
> the single biggest user of UKs camera system originally intended for serious crimes are housing councils checking to see who didn't clean up after their dog. Which camera system? Do you have a citation for that?
- ChrisKnott 5y ago
  That's absolute nonsense but it's one of those things where I'd be interested to try and unpick the provenance of how someone could believe something so ridiculous.
  - dijit 5y ago
    You guys are so dismissive. How dare you look down on some random person without even taking 10 seconds to look it up. https://www.thewestmorlandgazette.co.uk/news/17327294.cctv-cameras-used-crack-dog-fouling/ https://www.thewestmorlandgazette.co.uk/news/17327294.cctv-c... https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-22792013 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-22792013 Anecdotally my Mum works for Coventry City Council (though she is in events planning) but has noted complaints from colleagues about “busy work” from “fussy old people who keep asking for camera footage” — though Coventry often declines. Information on those cameras: https://www.coventry.gov.uk/cctv https://www.coventry.gov.uk/cctv
    - albertgoeswoof 5y ago
      One or two news reports of local councils maybe using CCTV, doesn’t back up your claim. The UK doesn’t have a super camera system used for minor crimes like you insinuate. The high camera counts in the UK come from including private CCTV cameras in the data which privately owned and are not linked together, hence the government is not using a network of cameras to monitor dog poo clean up as you claim.
      - cryptonym 5y ago
        Don't know about UK but in France they are now using CCTV to fine not well parked delivery guys for a 2 minutes stop. While I agree vehicle parked anywhere can be a big inconvenience and deserve a fine, I don't think that's a big crime justifying deployment of such a surveillance system. This totally makes sense, having one cop checking 100+ CCTV is far more efficient than a full team walking in the streets. Once you justified the cost on privacy and managed to deploy such system, it's so easy and convenient to use it for something else.

jolux 5y ago

> A set of unverified hashes that you hope only came from NCMEC. Telecoms do this on their own devices - not yours. Yes, those are the main things we’re concerned about. > Apple just opened the door for constant searches of your digital devices. Specifically, it opens the door to them scanning content which is then end-to-end encrypted, which is the main problem. I think the jury is out on whether this capability will be abused. Apple has said they will reject requests to use it for other purposes, but who really knows whether they will end up being forced to add hashes that aren’t CSAM? I agree that both of these are potential problems.

vorpalhex 5y ago
Apple gave up in the face of China. Why not the US too?
- jolux 5y ago
  Because they have legal avenues in the US that they don’t have in China? Easy.
  - vorpalhex 5y ago
    They had a legal avenue in China called leaving. That was not profitable though, so they compromised their ethics in exchange for money.

albertgoeswoof 5y ago

> the single biggest user of UKs camera system originally intended for serious crimes are housing councils checking to see who didn't clean up after their dog. Which camera system? Do you have a citation for that?

ChrisKnott 5y ago
That's absolute nonsense but it's one of those things where I'd be interested to try and unpick the provenance of how someone could believe something so ridiculous.
- dijit 5y ago
  You guys are so dismissive. How dare you look down on some random person without even taking 10 seconds to look it up. https://www.thewestmorlandgazette.co.uk/news/17327294.cctv-cameras-used-crack-dog-fouling/ https://www.thewestmorlandgazette.co.uk/news/17327294.cctv-c... https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-22792013 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-22792013 Anecdotally my Mum works for Coventry City Council (though she is in events planning) but has noted complaints from colleagues about “busy work” from “fussy old people who keep asking for camera footage” — though Coventry often declines. Information on those cameras: https://www.coventry.gov.uk/cctv https://www.coventry.gov.uk/cctv
  - albertgoeswoof 5y ago
    One or two news reports of local councils maybe using CCTV, doesn’t back up your claim. The UK doesn’t have a super camera system used for minor crimes like you insinuate. The high camera counts in the UK come from including private CCTV cameras in the data which privately owned and are not linked together, hence the government is not using a network of cameras to monitor dog poo clean up as you claim.
    - cryptonym 5y ago
      Don't know about UK but in France they are now using CCTV to fine not well parked delivery guys for a 2 minutes stop. While I agree vehicle parked anywhere can be a big inconvenience and deserve a fine, I don't think that's a big crime justifying deployment of such a surveillance system. This totally makes sense, having one cop checking 100+ CCTV is far more efficient than a full team walking in the streets. Once you justified the cost on privacy and managed to deploy such system, it's so easy and convenient to use it for something else.