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I always found AirBnB's model based on a surprising amount of trust - I for one would never be comfortable just handing over they keys to my place to a total st

I always found AirBnB's model based on a surprising amount of trust - I for one would never be comfortable just handing over they keys to my place to a total stranger. Even if they didn't ransack my place completely, as happened to the unfortunate author - I would be concerned about unintentional damage to my property that I might not discover till too late. Renting out something as private as my primary place of residence just seems like a generally bad idea, especially when I am not around to constantly check in on it. Even if I got to meet them, and they seemed like nice people whats to stop them from leaving without paying if they accidentally broke my TV ? As the service expands, and becomes more craigslist-y (in terms of audience) I can only see problems like this getting worse, and apart from implementing some kind of guest / host rating system (like ecommerce portals do with sellers) I see no clear solution to the problem.

bambax 15y ago
Same here. I'd be more than willing to use the service as a customer, but as a host? Never. If you're a customer the worst of the worst than can happen is you lose the rental fee and have to find a hotel. As a host, the worst that can happen is this.
- speckledjim 15y ago
  No, the worst that could happen is the host is a psycho who wants to murder / rape / take nude pics of you without you knowing. There's a reason hotels exist, and there's a reason why it's a bad idea to hitch-hike, or even worse, stay with people you don't know.
  - dmm 15y ago
    Everything in life carries risks. Trusting strangers is nice. I'd rather live in a world where I can. Then again I live in a place where people leave their cars unlocked.
    - speckledjim 15y ago
      Sure, but the whole premise is that you're traveling. Going to unknown territories. If I'm going traveling, I'm sure as hell in "untrusting" mode since I don't have a clue what the locals are like. There's strangers as in "local resident I see each day but don't know", and there's strangers as in "I've just traveled to a completely different country and have no clue who this person is" Wanting to trust everyone and believing majority of people are good is a nice hippy dream. There's some nasty horrible people out there.
      - js2 15y ago
        This family bicycled 26,000 miles over 43 months and didn't run into a single one of those nasty horrible people. Maybe they were extremely lucky, but I like to think you can't live your life worrying about the few nasty horrible people. http://familyonbikes.org/blog/2011/01/isn’t-bike-touring-dangerous/ http://familyonbikes.org/blog/2011/01/isn’t-bike-touring-dan...
        a3camero 15y ago
        For an alternative anecdote see this 2008 BBC article: "'World peace' hitcher is murdered". http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7344381.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7344381.stm A woman hitchhiked through the middle east dressed as a bride to promote world peace and was murdered and raped. Are either of these anecdotes indicative of people's experiences when travelling? No. Is there potential danger in relying heavily on stranger's good intentions? Perhaps.
        ansgri 15y ago
        People generally don't like outliers. If not-so-decent people see someone not like them (probably noticeably better), they would have a natural desire to make them harm. At least of envy.
      - dmm 15y ago
        > a nice hippy dream. Bullshit. Live in fear of strangers your whole life or trust the basic humanity of strangers. Either way you're still going to die of heart disease like the rest of us. Why don't you live in constant fear of that? Stranger danger is a result of a fear-mongering media. Are you seriously worried about serial killers? Do you know how few of them there are and how freaking many people there are in the world? People love to live in fear of things like strangers because it's immediate and controllable. They can just choose to stay away from them. It gives people a sense of control. Heart disease is long-term and amorphous. It's harder to gain immediate relief from fear of that. By all means, don't leave a bunch of cash around while staying at a stranger's house. Take reasonable precautions. But fearing people by default is irrational.
  - wisty 15y ago
    A guest can only needs to steal credit card details to attack the host. The host needs to steal a whole house. That might be possible (through, say, AirBnB), but I doubt it would be easy.
- zacharypinter 15y ago
  Agreed, though I see a lot of people using AirBNB for guesthouses, rooms in their house (where they'll at least be at the place), or investment houses. Those scenarios seem less risky.
michaeldhopkins 15y ago
As the service expands, regular people's homes (with unrestorable personal value and charm) will be replaced with commercial properties using airBnB as just another advertising channel. When that happens the fresh appeal will be gone and airBnB will be successful if they have become popular and stable enough that an airBnB listing is mandatory for people in the property management business.
- dlss 15y ago
  I hope this happens soon. The risk/reward trade-offs don't seem to be understood by most AirBnB landlords (99.99% chance of earning $100, 0.01% chance of losing $50k+). Even though this is strongly positive expected value, for a family that can't afford to lose $50k this is a game of russian roulette. My heart goes out to the author of this; I hope the person who did this to her is put in jail, and the system (AirBnB) that enabled that person prevents landlords who can't afford the financial & emotional risk from listing properties going forward. This is one those places where laws make sense to me; the average person needs to be protected from unknowingly gambling with their family's future.
  - true_religion 15y ago
    > This is one those places where laws make sense to me; the average person needs to be protected from unknowingly gambling with their family's future. What kind of laws do you suggest?
    - dlss 15y ago
      At the very least requiring theft/fire/vandalism insurance for people renting out their home. Also interesting: limiting vacation rentals to accredited investors. (edit: and requiring places like AirBnB to verify those requirements before you can list with them)
      - m__ 15y ago
        Why don't you start a business that offers competitive insurance packages to people who want to use airBnB (and similar products) instead of demanding a law that obviously would have a lot of unwanted side effects on people who _do_ know about the risks they are taking by entering this business? Protective laws have very high hidden costs. These costs are hard to quantify and routinely are neglected when discussing pros and cons of said laws.
prostoalex 15y ago
AirBnB already has a host rating system, but because of no set level of expectations pretty much everybody gets 5 stars. Hotels are easier to rate in that regard, and people have no qualms leaving lower ratings if they don't see extra towels, have to sit in uncomfortable chairs, or are charged $14.99 for wireless Internet. Guest rating system is even harder, as unless you're hardcore traveler, your use of AirBnB might be limited to once or twice a year. This would also penalize any new user to the service.
klenwell 15y ago
Was this a total stranger? It would make a lot more sense to me if it was an ex-lover or people put up to it by an ex-lover or otherwise someone with a personal vendetta. Put me in mind of this story: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/26/nyregion/a-revenge-plot-so-intricate-the-prosecutors-were-pawns.html?pagewanted=all http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/26/nyregion/a-revenge-plot-so...
naner 15y ago
I can't believe anyone would rent out their home. I assumed most people rented out spare properties, not their primary residence.

bambax 15y ago

Same here. I'd be more than willing to use the service as a customer, but as a host? Never. If you're a customer the worst of the worst than can happen is you lose the rental fee and have to find a hotel. As a host, the worst that can happen is this.

speckledjim 15y ago
No, the worst that could happen is the host is a psycho who wants to murder / rape / take nude pics of you without you knowing. There's a reason hotels exist, and there's a reason why it's a bad idea to hitch-hike, or even worse, stay with people you don't know.
- dmm 15y ago
  Everything in life carries risks. Trusting strangers is nice. I'd rather live in a world where I can. Then again I live in a place where people leave their cars unlocked.
  - speckledjim 15y ago
    Sure, but the whole premise is that you're traveling. Going to unknown territories. If I'm going traveling, I'm sure as hell in "untrusting" mode since I don't have a clue what the locals are like. There's strangers as in "local resident I see each day but don't know", and there's strangers as in "I've just traveled to a completely different country and have no clue who this person is" Wanting to trust everyone and believing majority of people are good is a nice hippy dream. There's some nasty horrible people out there.
    - js2 15y ago
      This family bicycled 26,000 miles over 43 months and didn't run into a single one of those nasty horrible people. Maybe they were extremely lucky, but I like to think you can't live your life worrying about the few nasty horrible people. http://familyonbikes.org/blog/2011/01/isn’t-bike-touring-dangerous/ http://familyonbikes.org/blog/2011/01/isn’t-bike-touring-dan...
      - a3camero 15y ago
        For an alternative anecdote see this 2008 BBC article: "'World peace' hitcher is murdered". http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7344381.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7344381.stm A woman hitchhiked through the middle east dressed as a bride to promote world peace and was murdered and raped. Are either of these anecdotes indicative of people's experiences when travelling? No. Is there potential danger in relying heavily on stranger's good intentions? Perhaps.
        ansgri 15y ago
        People generally don't like outliers. If not-so-decent people see someone not like them (probably noticeably better), they would have a natural desire to make them harm. At least of envy.
    - dmm 15y ago
      > a nice hippy dream. Bullshit. Live in fear of strangers your whole life or trust the basic humanity of strangers. Either way you're still going to die of heart disease like the rest of us. Why don't you live in constant fear of that? Stranger danger is a result of a fear-mongering media. Are you seriously worried about serial killers? Do you know how few of them there are and how freaking many people there are in the world? People love to live in fear of things like strangers because it's immediate and controllable. They can just choose to stay away from them. It gives people a sense of control. Heart disease is long-term and amorphous. It's harder to gain immediate relief from fear of that. By all means, don't leave a bunch of cash around while staying at a stranger's house. Take reasonable precautions. But fearing people by default is irrational.
- wisty 15y ago
  A guest can only needs to steal credit card details to attack the host. The host needs to steal a whole house. That might be possible (through, say, AirBnB), but I doubt it would be easy.
zacharypinter 15y ago
Agreed, though I see a lot of people using AirBNB for guesthouses, rooms in their house (where they'll at least be at the place), or investment houses. Those scenarios seem less risky.

michaeldhopkins 15y ago

As the service expands, regular people's homes (with unrestorable personal value and charm) will be replaced with commercial properties using airBnB as just another advertising channel. When that happens the fresh appeal will be gone and airBnB will be successful if they have become popular and stable enough that an airBnB listing is mandatory for people in the property management business.

dlss 15y ago
I hope this happens soon. The risk/reward trade-offs don't seem to be understood by most AirBnB landlords (99.99% chance of earning $100, 0.01% chance of losing $50k+). Even though this is strongly positive expected value, for a family that can't afford to lose $50k this is a game of russian roulette. My heart goes out to the author of this; I hope the person who did this to her is put in jail, and the system (AirBnB) that enabled that person prevents landlords who can't afford the financial & emotional risk from listing properties going forward. This is one those places where laws make sense to me; the average person needs to be protected from unknowingly gambling with their family's future.
- true_religion 15y ago
  > This is one those places where laws make sense to me; the average person needs to be protected from unknowingly gambling with their family's future. What kind of laws do you suggest?
  - dlss 15y ago
    At the very least requiring theft/fire/vandalism insurance for people renting out their home. Also interesting: limiting vacation rentals to accredited investors. (edit: and requiring places like AirBnB to verify those requirements before you can list with them)
    - m__ 15y ago
      Why don't you start a business that offers competitive insurance packages to people who want to use airBnB (and similar products) instead of demanding a law that obviously would have a lot of unwanted side effects on people who _do_ know about the risks they are taking by entering this business? Protective laws have very high hidden costs. These costs are hard to quantify and routinely are neglected when discussing pros and cons of said laws.

prostoalex 15y ago

AirBnB already has a host rating system, but because of no set level of expectations pretty much everybody gets 5 stars. Hotels are easier to rate in that regard, and people have no qualms leaving lower ratings if they don't see extra towels, have to sit in uncomfortable chairs, or are charged $14.99 for wireless Internet. Guest rating system is even harder, as unless you're hardcore traveler, your use of AirBnB might be limited to once or twice a year. This would also penalize any new user to the service.

klenwell 15y ago

Was this a total stranger? It would make a lot more sense to me if it was an ex-lover or people put up to it by an ex-lover or otherwise someone with a personal vendetta. Put me in mind of this story: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/26/nyregion/a-revenge-plot-so-intricate-the-prosecutors-were-pawns.html?pagewanted=all http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/26/nyregion/a-revenge-plot-so...

naner 15y ago

I can't believe anyone would rent out their home. I assumed most people rented out spare properties, not their primary residence.