5 ms·

> There was parents arrested over bath time and playing in the yard sprinklers, photos being processed at photo mats, will the same thing happen by apple mistak

by jolux 5y ago

> There was parents arrested over bath time and playing in the yard sprinklers, photos being processed at photo mats, will the same thing happen by apple mistakenly reporting parents? No, because they’re not identifying content, they’re matching it against a set of already-known CSAM that NCMEC maintains. As you go on to say, telecoms and other companies already do this. Apple just advanced the state of the art when it comes to the security and privacy guarantees involved.

XorNot 5y ago
It's a lossy hash match though. If it wasn't, then subtly re-encoding the image would hide it. So they're definitely going to be mistakingly matching images.
- robertoandred 5y ago
  And any mistakes would be caught by the manual review.
  - vorpalhex 5y ago
    So now Apple gets to paw through your images without a warrant or consent?
    - jolux 5y ago
      You consent in the terms of service for iCloud Photos.
      - vorpalhex 5y ago
        Try that on your next date and let me know how it goes for you.
        seaofmars 5y ago
        Entering a legally sound contract is a far cry from rape, don't you think?
        judge2020 5y ago
        The date will probably leave, so why would people "on a date" with iCloud Photos stay?
        jolux 5y ago
        I don’t tend to sign contracts with people I date.
  - edmundsauto 5y ago
    Which will have its own rate of false positives. Manual review is not a panacea, especially if the original net is cast widely.
vorpalhex 5y ago
A set of unverified hashes that you hope only came from NCMEC. Telecoms do this on their own devices - not yours. Apple just opened the door for constant searches of your digital devices. If you think it will stop at CSAM you have never read a history book - the single biggest user of UKs camera system originally intended for serious crimes are housing councils checking to see who didn't clean up after their dog.
- jolux 5y ago
  > A set of unverified hashes that you hope only came from NCMEC. Telecoms do this on their own devices - not yours. Yes, those are the main things we’re concerned about. > Apple just opened the door for constant searches of your digital devices. Specifically, it opens the door to them scanning content which is then end-to-end encrypted, which is the main problem. I think the jury is out on whether this capability will be abused. Apple has said they will reject requests to use it for other purposes, but who really knows whether they will end up being forced to add hashes that aren’t CSAM? I agree that both of these are potential problems.
  - vorpalhex 5y ago
    Apple gave up in the face of China. Why not the US too?
    - jolux 5y ago
      Because they have legal avenues in the US that they don’t have in China? Easy.
      - vorpalhex 5y ago
        They had a legal avenue in China called leaving. That was not profitable though, so they compromised their ethics in exchange for money.
- albertgoeswoof 5y ago
  > the single biggest user of UKs camera system originally intended for serious crimes are housing councils checking to see who didn't clean up after their dog. Which camera system? Do you have a citation for that?

by jolux 5y ago

XorNot 5y ago

It's a lossy hash match though. If it wasn't, then subtly re-encoding the image would hide it. So they're definitely going to be mistakingly matching images.

robertoandred 5y ago
And any mistakes would be caught by the manual review.
- vorpalhex 5y ago
  So now Apple gets to paw through your images without a warrant or consent?
  - jolux 5y ago
    You consent in the terms of service for iCloud Photos.
    - vorpalhex 5y ago
      Try that on your next date and let me know how it goes for you.
      - seaofmars 5y ago
        Entering a legally sound contract is a far cry from rape, don't you think?
      - judge2020 5y ago
        The date will probably leave, so why would people "on a date" with iCloud Photos stay?
      - jolux 5y ago
        I don’t tend to sign contracts with people I date.
- edmundsauto 5y ago
  Which will have its own rate of false positives. Manual review is not a panacea, especially if the original net is cast widely.

vorpalhex 5y ago

A set of unverified hashes that you hope only came from NCMEC. Telecoms do this on their own devices - not yours. Apple just opened the door for constant searches of your digital devices. If you think it will stop at CSAM you have never read a history book - the single biggest user of UKs camera system originally intended for serious crimes are housing councils checking to see who didn't clean up after their dog.

jolux 5y ago
> A set of unverified hashes that you hope only came from NCMEC. Telecoms do this on their own devices - not yours. Yes, those are the main things we’re concerned about. > Apple just opened the door for constant searches of your digital devices. Specifically, it opens the door to them scanning content which is then end-to-end encrypted, which is the main problem. I think the jury is out on whether this capability will be abused. Apple has said they will reject requests to use it for other purposes, but who really knows whether they will end up being forced to add hashes that aren’t CSAM? I agree that both of these are potential problems.
- vorpalhex 5y ago
  Apple gave up in the face of China. Why not the US too?
  - jolux 5y ago
    Because they have legal avenues in the US that they don’t have in China? Easy.
    - vorpalhex 5y ago
      They had a legal avenue in China called leaving. That was not profitable though, so they compromised their ethics in exchange for money.
albertgoeswoof 5y ago
> the single biggest user of UKs camera system originally intended for serious crimes are housing councils checking to see who didn't clean up after their dog. Which camera system? Do you have a citation for that?