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That's a strawman. Can you instead address this particular bucket: people who have had Covid, and are now wondering if they are as immune as they can hope for,

That's a strawman. Can you instead address this particular bucket: people who have had Covid, and are now wondering if they are as immune as they can hope for, considering all other available interventions.

SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago
> people who have had Covid, and are now wondering if they are as immune as they can hope for, considering all other available interventions. They are not "as immune as they can hope for" and would benefit from vaccination, after having had COVID, in that respect. Links posted already, but mainly https://www.healthline.com/health-news/why-you-need-to-get-vaccinated-even-if-youve-already-had-covid-19 https://www.healthline.com/health-news/why-you-need-to-get-v...
plorg 5y ago
I absolutely don't think it's a strawman. Nearly to a person, the people in my life who have not gotten vaccinated and have not yet gotten Covid-19, if asked, have been making this argument: it's not that bad, it's not worth getting the vaccine.
ramraj07 5y ago
Actually being infected with Covid (symptomatic) probably does confer the best immunity possible, for sure. You should still get vaccinated after that though, because research suggests that vaccination can significantly help alleviate long COViD symptoms which a large fraction of patients have. Haven’t seen actual numbers on the immunity boost conferred by post-Covid vaccination though (no reason to think it’ll not add at least a slight bit).
- maxerickson 5y ago
  The stabilized spike used in several of the vaccines appears to offer better resistance to new infection than convalescent immunity. (The theory is that the vaccine antibodies do a better job of binding to the active site on infectious virus particles than the antibodies induced from infection, which bind to whichever part of the virus, and may bind to the form the active site takes after attaching to a cell, rather than prior) Also, getting the vaccine as early as it is available is a better way to avoid long Covid than getting the vaccine after you've had a course of infection.
- tchalla 5y ago
  > Actually being infected with Covid (symptomatic) probably does confer the best immunity possible, for sure. I don't think so. We have multiple links in this thread that say otherwise.
jchw 5y ago
Not being or knowing people applicable to the comment does not make it a straw man. Anyway, available sources so far seem to suggest greater immunity from the vaccine. https://directorsblog.nih.gov/2021/06/22/how-immunity-generated-from-covid-19-vaccines-differs-from-an-infection/ https://directorsblog.nih.gov/2021/06/22/how-immunity-genera...
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
daveguy 5y ago
Identifying the relative effects of two courses of action is nowhere near a straw man. Merriam-Webster definition of straw man: a weak or imaginary opposition (such as an argument or adversary) set up only to be easily confuted Stating the actual side-effects of one course over the other is neither weak nor imaginary.
- Izkata 5y ago
  There are two different buckets of people that OP is conflating: * Those who haven't been infected yet * Those who have already been infected They're ignoring the second bucket, which is what GP was pointing out - only talking about the first bucket and pretending it applies to both.
  - daveguy 5y ago
    No. They are addressing the subgroup of the first group of people, who you are ignoring: * Those who haven't been infected who are wondering if they should not bother with the vaccine if getting infected provides durable immunity. The answer to that is: the vaccine is orders of magnitude less dangerous than contracting the virus. Just because you don't address every single group of people in a response does not mean that response is invalid or unimportant.
    - briefcomment 5y ago
      What group two should do is far more interesting IMO given this evidence.
eightysixfour 5y ago
This study shows that those who have had COVID but are unvaccinated have 2.3x the risk of reinfection compared to those who had COVID and are vaccinated. 246 patients, 492 controls. https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7032e1.htm?s_cid=mm7032e1_w https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7032e1.htm?s_cid=mm...
- rubatuga 5y ago
  This isn’t a randomized control trial, meaning you have tons of confounders.
- Izkata 5y ago
  > First, reinfection was not confirmed through whole genome sequencing, which would be necessary to definitively prove that the reinfection was caused from a distinct virus relative to the first infection. I guess that would explain how it doesn't fit with this: https://bnonews.com/index.php/2020/08/covid-19-reinfection-tracker/ https://bnonews.com/index.php/2020/08/covid-19-reinfection-t... (<200 confirmed reinfections worldwide, 82k suspected reinfections worldwide).

SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago

> people who have had Covid, and are now wondering if they are as immune as they can hope for, considering all other available interventions. They are not "as immune as they can hope for" and would benefit from vaccination, after having had COVID, in that respect. Links posted already, but mainly https://www.healthline.com/health-news/why-you-need-to-get-vaccinated-even-if-youve-already-had-covid-19 https://www.healthline.com/health-news/why-you-need-to-get-v...

plorg 5y ago

I absolutely don't think it's a strawman. Nearly to a person, the people in my life who have not gotten vaccinated and have not yet gotten Covid-19, if asked, have been making this argument: it's not that bad, it's not worth getting the vaccine.

ramraj07 5y ago

Actually being infected with Covid (symptomatic) probably does confer the best immunity possible, for sure. You should still get vaccinated after that though, because research suggests that vaccination can significantly help alleviate long COViD symptoms which a large fraction of patients have. Haven’t seen actual numbers on the immunity boost conferred by post-Covid vaccination though (no reason to think it’ll not add at least a slight bit).

maxerickson 5y ago
The stabilized spike used in several of the vaccines appears to offer better resistance to new infection than convalescent immunity. (The theory is that the vaccine antibodies do a better job of binding to the active site on infectious virus particles than the antibodies induced from infection, which bind to whichever part of the virus, and may bind to the form the active site takes after attaching to a cell, rather than prior) Also, getting the vaccine as early as it is available is a better way to avoid long Covid than getting the vaccine after you've had a course of infection.
tchalla 5y ago
> Actually being infected with Covid (symptomatic) probably does confer the best immunity possible, for sure. I don't think so. We have multiple links in this thread that say otherwise.

jchw 5y ago

Not being or knowing people applicable to the comment does not make it a straw man. Anyway, available sources so far seem to suggest greater immunity from the vaccine. https://directorsblog.nih.gov/2021/06/22/how-immunity-generated-from-covid-19-vaccines-differs-from-an-infection/ https://directorsblog.nih.gov/2021/06/22/how-immunity-genera...

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

daveguy 5y ago

Identifying the relative effects of two courses of action is nowhere near a straw man. Merriam-Webster definition of straw man: a weak or imaginary opposition (such as an argument or adversary) set up only to be easily confuted Stating the actual side-effects of one course over the other is neither weak nor imaginary.

Izkata 5y ago
There are two different buckets of people that OP is conflating: * Those who haven't been infected yet * Those who have already been infected They're ignoring the second bucket, which is what GP was pointing out - only talking about the first bucket and pretending it applies to both.
- daveguy 5y ago
  No. They are addressing the subgroup of the first group of people, who you are ignoring: * Those who haven't been infected who are wondering if they should not bother with the vaccine if getting infected provides durable immunity. The answer to that is: the vaccine is orders of magnitude less dangerous than contracting the virus. Just because you don't address every single group of people in a response does not mean that response is invalid or unimportant.
  - briefcomment 5y ago
    What group two should do is far more interesting IMO given this evidence.

eightysixfour 5y ago

This study shows that those who have had COVID but are unvaccinated have 2.3x the risk of reinfection compared to those who had COVID and are vaccinated. 246 patients, 492 controls. https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7032e1.htm?s_cid=mm7032e1_w https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7032e1.htm?s_cid=mm...

rubatuga 5y ago
This isn’t a randomized control trial, meaning you have tons of confounders.
Izkata 5y ago
> First, reinfection was not confirmed through whole genome sequencing, which would be necessary to definitively prove that the reinfection was caused from a distinct virus relative to the first infection. I guess that would explain how it doesn't fit with this: https://bnonews.com/index.php/2020/08/covid-19-reinfection-tracker/ https://bnonews.com/index.php/2020/08/covid-19-reinfection-t... (<200 confirmed reinfections worldwide, 82k suspected reinfections worldwide).