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I would also point out that today it is not possible to form new large scale coal/oil deposits. Coal/oil deposits that we are using up now formed because at th

I would also point out that today it is not possible to form new large scale coal/oil deposits. Coal/oil deposits that we are using up now formed because at the time there was no bacteria that could digest dead plant/plankton matter. This is also why all coal/oil deposits are very old. There is very little deposits after bacteria has evolved. Nowadays there needs to be special circumstances for a piece of biological matter to not be digested by bacteria. For example it would have to be covered by permafrost or drown in oxygen-deficient lake for a very, very long time and then covered by soil.

kfprt 5y ago
This was the most interesting thing I learned when studying geology. More people should know about it.
- Qwertious 5y ago
  It's a controversial claim and probably false, definitely don't repeat it unless you've personally verified with an expert.
  - lmilcin 5y ago
    Nevertheless, there are no coal or oil deposits being formed or freshly formed (in geological terms). This roughly suggests to me, for whatever reason, there is no longer circumstances for new deposits to form.
    - yxhuvud 5y ago
      It can also mean we are looking in the wrong places.
taberiand 5y ago
So at least once we send ourselves extinct through fossil-fuel driven climate change, any intelligent life that comes after us won't have the resources to do the same.
- b3morales 5y ago
  Without the easy energy source to bootstrap their tech, they may not get anywhere near having to consider that problem. They might not even make it to figuring out steel.
- lmilcin 5y ago
  Interesting thought. I think energy is least of problems. At the beginning forests provide a lot of energy and would be enough to bridge to industrial times (at least for us). The real issue, I think, is lack of easily available raw materials like iron, tin, copper, etc. We have depended A LOT on iron practically lying on the ground. Without having some iron easily available any startup civilization wouldn't know to look deeper and even if they wanted, they would not have any tools to do so. At least with energy there is multiple ways to acquire it.
  - rtkwe 5y ago
    On the other hand there’s a lot of already processed and extracted iron and steel we’ve conveniently dug up and left around for future societies to maybe harvest.
    - lmilcin 5y ago
      You are right, I haven't thought of it.
      - rtkwe 5y ago
        I think it still works out to a net difficulty increase to any group trying to restart an industrialized civilization because of how much easy energy reserves have been permanently extracted. There’s basically no surface level coal/oil/gas that could be tapped into and finding the remaining reserves from scratch might be prohibitively difficult. Then there’s the question of how much of the steel will still be usable when it’s time to extract it. That’s a variable problem depending on how long the ‘dark age’ is before people are rebuilding I suppose. It could be like Doctorow’s Walkaway where there’s abundant enough discarded resources you can almost achieve post-scarcity (but that world never wen through a hard crash it was more building a parallel society than a whole new one). Or it could be centuries later when a lot of the steel will be rust. Hard to say.
deleted 5y ago
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bradrn 5y ago
I’ve heard this several times, but I looked into it in more detail, and it seems that there’s some controversy: e.g. https://www.pnas.org/content/113/9/2442 https://www.pnas.org/content/113/9/2442, https://academic.oup.com/femsre/article/41/6/941/4569254?login=true https://academic.oup.com/femsre/article/41/6/941/4569254?log...

kfprt 5y ago

This was the most interesting thing I learned when studying geology. More people should know about it.

Qwertious 5y ago
It's a controversial claim and probably false, definitely don't repeat it unless you've personally verified with an expert.
- lmilcin 5y ago
  Nevertheless, there are no coal or oil deposits being formed or freshly formed (in geological terms). This roughly suggests to me, for whatever reason, there is no longer circumstances for new deposits to form.
  - yxhuvud 5y ago
    It can also mean we are looking in the wrong places.

taberiand 5y ago

So at least once we send ourselves extinct through fossil-fuel driven climate change, any intelligent life that comes after us won't have the resources to do the same.

b3morales 5y ago
Without the easy energy source to bootstrap their tech, they may not get anywhere near having to consider that problem. They might not even make it to figuring out steel.
lmilcin 5y ago
Interesting thought. I think energy is least of problems. At the beginning forests provide a lot of energy and would be enough to bridge to industrial times (at least for us). The real issue, I think, is lack of easily available raw materials like iron, tin, copper, etc. We have depended A LOT on iron practically lying on the ground. Without having some iron easily available any startup civilization wouldn't know to look deeper and even if they wanted, they would not have any tools to do so. At least with energy there is multiple ways to acquire it.
- rtkwe 5y ago
  On the other hand there’s a lot of already processed and extracted iron and steel we’ve conveniently dug up and left around for future societies to maybe harvest.
  - lmilcin 5y ago
    You are right, I haven't thought of it.
    - rtkwe 5y ago
      I think it still works out to a net difficulty increase to any group trying to restart an industrialized civilization because of how much easy energy reserves have been permanently extracted. There’s basically no surface level coal/oil/gas that could be tapped into and finding the remaining reserves from scratch might be prohibitively difficult. Then there’s the question of how much of the steel will still be usable when it’s time to extract it. That’s a variable problem depending on how long the ‘dark age’ is before people are rebuilding I suppose. It could be like Doctorow’s Walkaway where there’s abundant enough discarded resources you can almost achieve post-scarcity (but that world never wen through a hard crash it was more building a parallel society than a whole new one). Or it could be centuries later when a lot of the steel will be rust. Hard to say.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

bradrn 5y ago

I’ve heard this several times, but I looked into it in more detail, and it seems that there’s some controversy: e.g. https://www.pnas.org/content/113/9/2442 https://www.pnas.org/content/113/9/2442, https://academic.oup.com/femsre/article/41/6/941/4569254?login=true https://academic.oup.com/femsre/article/41/6/941/4569254?log...