6 ms·

Yep, the whole of society. Most of us have a great deal of control over how things are run in this definitely real democracy

kfprt 5y ago
I completely understand your feelings regarding a lack of control and agency. Modern politics now essentially revolve around outrage. No politician wants to vote on something at all controversial, every vote they take is liable to outrage one half of the population or another. Every time they do they halve their voting base until it's an irrelevant tiny minority that agrees on everything. So they have outsourced their job to the supreme court, federal agencies, and the parliamentarian. If you can cause enough outrage you will find that they fold relatively easily.
- 1270018080 5y ago
  They posture on identity politics, culture wars, and fear mongering, while their actions do nothing but service the needs of billionaires and corporations. "Critical race theory" in schools as an issue was manufactured out of thin air to make gullible racists afraid of something.
- kook_throwaway 5y ago
  There's plenty of things governments could be busy doing that aren't controversial, but managing the existing state doesn't have nearly the glamour (or reelection PR) of changing it.
- sokoloff 5y ago
  These topics tend not to be uncorrelated, so making 4 votes doesn’t leave you with 1/16th of your base, but often with 31/32nds of your base.
busterarm 5y ago
How many of us here on this board specifically work at Google or choose to work at companies that integrate with Google or otherwise use their services. It's always a choice.
- gmadsen 5y ago
  It is most certainly not, when your economic survival is dependent on these services. It is a false choice. I challenge anyone to try and live a normal life completely disconnected from the servers of Amazon, google, Facebook, and Apple. It is impossible.
  - carlivar 5y ago
    There's a big difference though between minor ongoing consumption of their services versus choosing to work for these companies.
  - mdp2021 5y ago
    Please elaborate. Many of us avoid the services of the four entities you mention, completely or almost. Their «servers», or their intrusion (monitoring) more difficult, requires strategies, but there are ways. Where would those four crucial for one's economic survival?
    - FractalParadigm 5y ago
      A good majority of media takes advantage of AWS; From [0]: > Here are the names that are on record publicly as using AWS: > Aon, Adobe, Airbnb, Alcatel-Lucent, AOL, Acquia, AdRoll, AEG, Alert Logic, Autodesk, Bitdefender, BMW, British Gas, Baidu, Bristol-Myers Squibb, Canon, Capital One, Channel 4, Chef, Citrix, Coinbase, Comcast, Coursera, Disney, Docker, Dow Jones, European Space Agency, ESPN, Expedia, Financial Times, FINRA, General Electric, GoSquared, Guardian News & Media, Harvard Medical School, Hearst Corporation, Hitachi, HTC, IMDb, International Centre for Radio Astronomy Research, International Civil Aviation Organization, ITV, iZettle, Johnson & Johnson, JustGiving, JWT, Kaplan, Kellogg’s, Lamborghini, Lonely Planet, Lyft, Made.com, McDonalds, NASA, NASDAQ OMX, National Rail Enquiries, National Trust, Netflix, News International, News UK, Nokia, Nordstrom, Novartis, Pfizer, Philips, Pinterest, Quantas, Reddit, Sage, Samsung, SAP, Schneider Electric, Scribd, Securitas Direct, Siemens, Slack, Sony, SoundCloud, Spotify, Square Enix, Tata Motors, The Weather Company, Twitch, Turner Broadcasting,Ticketmaster, Time Inc., Trainline, Ubisoft, UCAS, Unilever, US Department of State, USDA Food and Nutrition Service, UK Ministry of Justice, Vodafone Italy, WeTransfer, WIX, Xiaomi, Yelp, Zynga and Zillow. Just AWS (as of 2020, per the artice). Apple could even be included in that list, according to CNBC. How many more are on Azure or GCP? I would argue you're not completely avoiding their services if you're still a 'customer' of their customer, they're just getting a much smaller cut of your (or the advertiser's) money at the end of the day. [0]: https://www.contino.io/insights/whos-using-aws https://www.contino.io/insights/whos-using-aws
kktkti9 5y ago
Work from home during the worst of covid was the best time to threaten a strike. Everyone loaded up on extra TP, a work stop was all of not opening laptops for 35-40% of the country. But feudal exploitation by the rich and each other locally is preferred.
- lapinot 5y ago
  > a work stop was all of not opening laptops for 35-40% of the country Strikes are social events, you don't do it alone. There's usually a minority of agitators/organizers that are respected/trusted among workers and that call the shots/organize the fun. So working from home is very much anti-organization and hinders strikes. It isolates workers.
  - kktkti9 5y ago
    Literally isolates. I seem to recall an invention called “Internet” which allowed for concerts, talk shows, and numerous other social events to occur during covid.
    - pigeonhole123 5y ago
      This sarcastic tone will really help you in life. Keep doing it.
      - kktkti9 5y ago
        This patronizing tone will really help you in life. Keep doing it. The extent of our interaction is a few lines on HN while I’m bored on vacation due to bad weather. You really have my behavior the other 365 days a year figured out.
    - mschuster91 5y ago
      The problem is "mob dynamics". A visible picket line, a blocked street - that creates attention and draws more workers into the strike. On the Internet, these crowd dynamics don't work nearly as effective as they do in the meatspace.
berkes 5y ago
> the whole of *the USA-n* society. Being pedantic, I know. But this distinction does matter a lot in this context. From Europe, where we have our own issues and politics is not better; just different. But where anti-trust cases against American companies is taken serious, both EU wide and by smaller local governments. And where many of us can vote for a myriad of parties, some with "taking large US monopolies down" as a primary point. (pirateparty, Volt, that I know of). Parties who make real chance of taking the lead or getting people in parliament.

kfprt 5y ago

I completely understand your feelings regarding a lack of control and agency. Modern politics now essentially revolve around outrage. No politician wants to vote on something at all controversial, every vote they take is liable to outrage one half of the population or another. Every time they do they halve their voting base until it's an irrelevant tiny minority that agrees on everything. So they have outsourced their job to the supreme court, federal agencies, and the parliamentarian. If you can cause enough outrage you will find that they fold relatively easily.

1270018080 5y ago
They posture on identity politics, culture wars, and fear mongering, while their actions do nothing but service the needs of billionaires and corporations. "Critical race theory" in schools as an issue was manufactured out of thin air to make gullible racists afraid of something.
kook_throwaway 5y ago
There's plenty of things governments could be busy doing that aren't controversial, but managing the existing state doesn't have nearly the glamour (or reelection PR) of changing it.
sokoloff 5y ago
These topics tend not to be uncorrelated, so making 4 votes doesn’t leave you with 1/16th of your base, but often with 31/32nds of your base.

busterarm 5y ago

How many of us here on this board specifically work at Google or choose to work at companies that integrate with Google or otherwise use their services. It's always a choice.

gmadsen 5y ago
It is most certainly not, when your economic survival is dependent on these services. It is a false choice. I challenge anyone to try and live a normal life completely disconnected from the servers of Amazon, google, Facebook, and Apple. It is impossible.
- carlivar 5y ago
  There's a big difference though between minor ongoing consumption of their services versus choosing to work for these companies.
- mdp2021 5y ago
  Please elaborate. Many of us avoid the services of the four entities you mention, completely or almost. Their «servers», or their intrusion (monitoring) more difficult, requires strategies, but there are ways. Where would those four crucial for one's economic survival?
  - FractalParadigm 5y ago
    A good majority of media takes advantage of AWS; From [0]: > Here are the names that are on record publicly as using AWS: > Aon, Adobe, Airbnb, Alcatel-Lucent, AOL, Acquia, AdRoll, AEG, Alert Logic, Autodesk, Bitdefender, BMW, British Gas, Baidu, Bristol-Myers Squibb, Canon, Capital One, Channel 4, Chef, Citrix, Coinbase, Comcast, Coursera, Disney, Docker, Dow Jones, European Space Agency, ESPN, Expedia, Financial Times, FINRA, General Electric, GoSquared, Guardian News & Media, Harvard Medical School, Hearst Corporation, Hitachi, HTC, IMDb, International Centre for Radio Astronomy Research, International Civil Aviation Organization, ITV, iZettle, Johnson & Johnson, JustGiving, JWT, Kaplan, Kellogg’s, Lamborghini, Lonely Planet, Lyft, Made.com, McDonalds, NASA, NASDAQ OMX, National Rail Enquiries, National Trust, Netflix, News International, News UK, Nokia, Nordstrom, Novartis, Pfizer, Philips, Pinterest, Quantas, Reddit, Sage, Samsung, SAP, Schneider Electric, Scribd, Securitas Direct, Siemens, Slack, Sony, SoundCloud, Spotify, Square Enix, Tata Motors, The Weather Company, Twitch, Turner Broadcasting,Ticketmaster, Time Inc., Trainline, Ubisoft, UCAS, Unilever, US Department of State, USDA Food and Nutrition Service, UK Ministry of Justice, Vodafone Italy, WeTransfer, WIX, Xiaomi, Yelp, Zynga and Zillow. Just AWS (as of 2020, per the artice). Apple could even be included in that list, according to CNBC. How many more are on Azure or GCP? I would argue you're not completely avoiding their services if you're still a 'customer' of their customer, they're just getting a much smaller cut of your (or the advertiser's) money at the end of the day. [0]: https://www.contino.io/insights/whos-using-aws https://www.contino.io/insights/whos-using-aws

kktkti9 5y ago

Work from home during the worst of covid was the best time to threaten a strike. Everyone loaded up on extra TP, a work stop was all of not opening laptops for 35-40% of the country. But feudal exploitation by the rich and each other locally is preferred.

lapinot 5y ago
> a work stop was all of not opening laptops for 35-40% of the country Strikes are social events, you don't do it alone. There's usually a minority of agitators/organizers that are respected/trusted among workers and that call the shots/organize the fun. So working from home is very much anti-organization and hinders strikes. It isolates workers.
- kktkti9 5y ago
  Literally isolates. I seem to recall an invention called “Internet” which allowed for concerts, talk shows, and numerous other social events to occur during covid.
  - pigeonhole123 5y ago
    This sarcastic tone will really help you in life. Keep doing it.
    - kktkti9 5y ago
      This patronizing tone will really help you in life. Keep doing it. The extent of our interaction is a few lines on HN while I’m bored on vacation due to bad weather. You really have my behavior the other 365 days a year figured out.
  - mschuster91 5y ago
    The problem is "mob dynamics". A visible picket line, a blocked street - that creates attention and draws more workers into the strike. On the Internet, these crowd dynamics don't work nearly as effective as they do in the meatspace.

berkes 5y ago

> the whole of *the USA-n* society. Being pedantic, I know. But this distinction does matter a lot in this context. From Europe, where we have our own issues and politics is not better; just different. But where anti-trust cases against American companies is taken serious, both EU wide and by smaller local governments. And where many of us can vote for a myriad of parties, some with "taking large US monopolies down" as a primary point. (pirateparty, Volt, that I know of). Parties who make real chance of taking the lead or getting people in parliament.