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Sorry, there are untold (but not unknown) millions more people around the world who've recovered from addiction with 12-step than anything medical. AA was found

Sorry, there are untold (but not unknown) millions more people around the world who've recovered from addiction with 12-step than anything medical. AA was founded in part by a doctor (himself an alcoholic) who recognized that medical science had no solution to alcoholism. Fast-forward to now and the 'medical solution' to addiction is usually another addictive substance. Can those help? Sure, and they do. But I don't think there's been any significant studies confirming medical science has a better solution than 12-step. If you have evidence that relapse rates are lower outside of 12-step than within, please share because I've never heard of it.

lotophage 5y ago
Here's an article from The Atlantic that you might want to read. > Its faith-based 12-step program dominates treatment in the United States. But researchers have debunked central tenets of AA doctrine and found dozens of other treatments more effective. https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/04/the-irrationality-of-alcoholics-anonymous/386255/ https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/04/the-irr...
sneak 5y ago
> But I don't think there's been any significant studies confirming medical science has a better solution than 12-step. This is false. 12-step is a faith-based system, and is approximately equal to other unscientific systems in terms of success rate. The AA book itself perpetuates the lie of its effectiveness: > Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path. Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to this simple program, usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves. There are such unfortunates. They are not at fault; they seem to have been born that way.
- janto 5y ago
  Your dismissal of 12-steps system purely due to it being faith-based, is unscientific. Psilocybin (a religious experience inducing substance) appears to be a very promising treatment.
  - danaris 5y ago
    "This drug induces hallucinations. Some people interpret those hallucinations to be religious in nature. Therefore, this drug is faith-based." That's not a very strong chain of logic. The 12-step system is, at least based on my very limited understanding, founded with assumptions that the people using it will be either Christian or theistic and raised in a culturally Christian society, and thus have a similar notion of "faith in a higher power". That's what "faith-based" means.
    - janto 5y ago
      Psilocybin has a distinct spiritual phenomenology that not all hallucinogens have. While there is a difference between a faith and a spiritual experience, they both work within a religious framing of life, which might be helping the individual with addictive behavior here.
- EdwardDiego 5y ago
  I went to AA when I was concerned about my drinking. A fair few people there seemed to have swapped alcohol dependence for AA meeting dependence. Definitely better to be reliant on a supportive group of peers than something that'll eventually kill you, but felt like swapping smoking for vaping - definitely better for you, but not solving the underlying cause. And their view that you're always going to be an alcoholic, for the rest of your life feels like a belief rather than scientific fact, and sometimes, a self-fulfilling prophecy when members relapse. But ultimately, it works for some people, so more power to them.
deleted 5y ago
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lotophage 5y ago

Here's an article from The Atlantic that you might want to read. > Its faith-based 12-step program dominates treatment in the United States. But researchers have debunked central tenets of AA doctrine and found dozens of other treatments more effective. https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/04/the-irrationality-of-alcoholics-anonymous/386255/ https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/04/the-irr...

sneak 5y ago

> But I don't think there's been any significant studies confirming medical science has a better solution than 12-step. This is false. 12-step is a faith-based system, and is approximately equal to other unscientific systems in terms of success rate. The AA book itself perpetuates the lie of its effectiveness: > Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path. Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to this simple program, usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves. There are such unfortunates. They are not at fault; they seem to have been born that way.

janto 5y ago
Your dismissal of 12-steps system purely due to it being faith-based, is unscientific. Psilocybin (a religious experience inducing substance) appears to be a very promising treatment.
- danaris 5y ago
  "This drug induces hallucinations. Some people interpret those hallucinations to be religious in nature. Therefore, this drug is faith-based." That's not a very strong chain of logic. The 12-step system is, at least based on my very limited understanding, founded with assumptions that the people using it will be either Christian or theistic and raised in a culturally Christian society, and thus have a similar notion of "faith in a higher power". That's what "faith-based" means.
  - janto 5y ago
    Psilocybin has a distinct spiritual phenomenology that not all hallucinogens have. While there is a difference between a faith and a spiritual experience, they both work within a religious framing of life, which might be helping the individual with addictive behavior here.
EdwardDiego 5y ago
I went to AA when I was concerned about my drinking. A fair few people there seemed to have swapped alcohol dependence for AA meeting dependence. Definitely better to be reliant on a supportive group of peers than something that'll eventually kill you, but felt like swapping smoking for vaping - definitely better for you, but not solving the underlying cause. And their view that you're always going to be an alcoholic, for the rest of your life feels like a belief rather than scientific fact, and sometimes, a self-fulfilling prophecy when members relapse. But ultimately, it works for some people, so more power to them.

deleted 5y ago

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