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To me, a lot of time addiction is a choice. I'm not saying all the time, but very often still. I've tried helping different people overcome an addiction, and ev

by polote 5y ago

To me, a lot of time addiction is a choice. I'm not saying all the time, but very often still. I've tried helping different people overcome an addiction, and even though at first they want to stop it, when they start to think more about it they don't really want it to stop. If you are not entirely convinced that the addiction is doing more harm than good, it is much more difficult to overcome it. Trying to think rationally is not going to be very helpful, most of people are not able to think that way, emotions and perceptions are much more important. I often say, life is much much easier when you are a rationalist

EdwardDiego 5y ago
Genuine question, have you ever recovered from addiction yourself? Because that phrasing is a bit odd, IMO. No-one chooses to become dependent, and there's a lot of optimism bias/hubris when people start dabbling in addictive substances - I won't get addicted like _those_ people, I'm different... But the hard bit, as you've noted, is making the choice to end your dependence. The choice to face whatever in life your vice of choice was numbing you to, to face it naked and vulnerable. ...that takes a lot of guts. And a lot of repeated attempts. And you're right about the need for intrinsic instead of external motivation.
omnicognate 5y ago
I agree that it is, or can be, a matter of "choice", but that's a subtle thing. What does it mean to "choose" or "want" something when you have conflicting motives, when you both enjoy and hate the same thing, even at the same time? I think a large part of reaching emotional maturity (for some people at least, me included) is about resolving those conflicts and achieving a sort of unity of self. This often involves letting some parts of yourself go, deciding not to be a particular person any more, which the "addiction" may only be one aspect of. In my case I finally succeeded in quitting smoking, after 9 years of 20-30 a day and innumerable failed attempts to stop, just after I got married, 18 years ago. It was easy.
balfirevic 5y ago
> To me, a lot of time addiction is a choice. What does "to me" mean here? Do you mean that's how you perceived it in your own addiction?
post_break 5y ago
I think this is the dumbest take on addiction. I've seen normal upstanding people resort to stealing copper to get a fix because the drug has wired their brain to get that hit. Or food addiction causing people to binge eat because they can't function without it. This isn't "hey that feels good I need more" this is "my brain is telling me I need this at all costs". Are you the same type of person who thinks people just need to "get over it" when it comes to depression?
- polote 5y ago
  Of course you can't control an addiction, because your brain, or body is asking for it. But when you are aware that you are addict, there are ways to overcome it. The fact that you don't have the energy, or motivation or anything else to fix it is that you either don't feel like it is going to be better without your addiction or you are not able to maintain the long term work needed. And both of those case are a choice. These are not easy choice, like choosing the color of your socks on the morning, they are difficult choices, but they are still choices you are making. And when I talk about addictions I dont only talk about big trauma, most of addictions are along the lines of people not being able to prevent themselves to eat chocolate everyday. People who think you just need to get over depression, have never been depressed.
  - post_break 5y ago
    I understand, I hope you know that my initial comment was curt, but I’m glad we’re seemingly coming to the same conclusion. I guess the “choice” is just a little different in frame of mind.
SamoyedFurFluff 5y ago
I think that’s much harder to study whether or not it’s a “choice” because the scales of choice are extremely biased. For example if someone is dealing with deep trauma, addiction may be a way of preventing extremely distressing or suicidal behavior by numbing or overwhelming the agony. If the choice is “I’m going to kill myself tonight” and “I’m going to drink until I don’t feel anything anymore and will probably live to see tomorrow” then the choice is really stacked towards alcohol.
- polote 5y ago
  That's what I meant by choice. I never said they made the choice to be unhappy. They just made the choice to be addicted. An addiction is not always something negative

by polote 5y ago

EdwardDiego 5y ago

Genuine question, have you ever recovered from addiction yourself? Because that phrasing is a bit odd, IMO. No-one chooses to become dependent, and there's a lot of optimism bias/hubris when people start dabbling in addictive substances - I won't get addicted like _those_ people, I'm different... But the hard bit, as you've noted, is making the choice to end your dependence. The choice to face whatever in life your vice of choice was numbing you to, to face it naked and vulnerable. ...that takes a lot of guts. And a lot of repeated attempts. And you're right about the need for intrinsic instead of external motivation.

omnicognate 5y ago

I agree that it is, or can be, a matter of "choice", but that's a subtle thing. What does it mean to "choose" or "want" something when you have conflicting motives, when you both enjoy and hate the same thing, even at the same time? I think a large part of reaching emotional maturity (for some people at least, me included) is about resolving those conflicts and achieving a sort of unity of self. This often involves letting some parts of yourself go, deciding not to be a particular person any more, which the "addiction" may only be one aspect of. In my case I finally succeeded in quitting smoking, after 9 years of 20-30 a day and innumerable failed attempts to stop, just after I got married, 18 years ago. It was easy.

balfirevic 5y ago

> To me, a lot of time addiction is a choice. What does "to me" mean here? Do you mean that's how you perceived it in your own addiction?

post_break 5y ago

I think this is the dumbest take on addiction. I've seen normal upstanding people resort to stealing copper to get a fix because the drug has wired their brain to get that hit. Or food addiction causing people to binge eat because they can't function without it. This isn't "hey that feels good I need more" this is "my brain is telling me I need this at all costs". Are you the same type of person who thinks people just need to "get over it" when it comes to depression?

polote 5y ago
Of course you can't control an addiction, because your brain, or body is asking for it. But when you are aware that you are addict, there are ways to overcome it. The fact that you don't have the energy, or motivation or anything else to fix it is that you either don't feel like it is going to be better without your addiction or you are not able to maintain the long term work needed. And both of those case are a choice. These are not easy choice, like choosing the color of your socks on the morning, they are difficult choices, but they are still choices you are making. And when I talk about addictions I dont only talk about big trauma, most of addictions are along the lines of people not being able to prevent themselves to eat chocolate everyday. People who think you just need to get over depression, have never been depressed.
- post_break 5y ago
  I understand, I hope you know that my initial comment was curt, but I’m glad we’re seemingly coming to the same conclusion. I guess the “choice” is just a little different in frame of mind.

SamoyedFurFluff 5y ago

I think that’s much harder to study whether or not it’s a “choice” because the scales of choice are extremely biased. For example if someone is dealing with deep trauma, addiction may be a way of preventing extremely distressing or suicidal behavior by numbing or overwhelming the agony. If the choice is “I’m going to kill myself tonight” and “I’m going to drink until I don’t feel anything anymore and will probably live to see tomorrow” then the choice is really stacked towards alcohol.

polote 5y ago
That's what I meant by choice. I never said they made the choice to be unhappy. They just made the choice to be addicted. An addiction is not always something negative