6 ms·

Of course, if you were the ceo of Google and have something like that happen. You would ask your teams, what are the different scenarios we can explore? And one

by polote 5y ago

Of course, if you were the ceo of Google and have something like that happen. You would ask your teams, what are the different scenarios we can explore? And one of them would be buying Epic. What people expect? Google is a for profit company don't expect them to act like an non profit organization

hdjjhhvvhga 5y ago
I don't find it surprising, either. It's just frustrating to find yet another bit of evidence you don't own a device you bought and the manufacturers think you should pay them for any little piece of software you want to run on it. One missing bit that still hasn't happened - but one day will - is the subscription required to use your device. For now it's optional (called iCloud storage etc.) - you are nagged and so on but are able to refuse, but one day it will become obligatory. It could be 10 years from on or 20, but for sure they're thinking how to do it.
- moksly 5y ago
  These lawsuit doesn’t really do much about ownership part though. It’s about billionaires deciding how many of them get to rent us software on the platforms that we don’t own.
- kettleballroll 5y ago
  OTOH, everyone dreams of building a successful SaaS, because they want to milk that model themselves.
robbedpeter 5y ago
We should be able to start with a clean slate - these companies should delete all user data that wasn't explicitly given by the user in a clear and obvious way (like profile credentials) and start from scratch. Every time any information is collected, the company should obtain consent after displaying the data to the user. A person should be able to inspect all data that had been associated with them, and to delete any or all of the data at any time. Within the personal profile, a the user should be given the option to opt-in to any and all uses of their data, with zero third party sharing unless allowed by the user on a byte-by-byte basis. If a company violates this a progressive and percentage based fine should be imposed for every day of non-compliance. Something like .01% of the company's net worth per day, increasing to 2% over the course of 30 days, half of which goes to federal enforcement and half to the user. Something painful and crippling, with teeth, and enough to incentivize people to watch out for themselves and to force companies to behave well. Data beaches should be lethal if data was leaked that wasn't obtained with consent. Faang is not entitled to surveil the lives of everyone in the world by dint of people merely visiting websites. Participation in a relationship with a person or business or community should be consensual.
kryptiskt 5y ago
It would be nice if they could take a hint from getting slapped around on anti-trust complaints. Maybe the fines aren't big enough for them to notice? I wonder if CEOs would be more amenable if getting rid of them was a possible sanction for anti-competitive behavior.
wccrawford 5y ago
Yup. It's take a pretty altruistic company not to even think about buying out someone who was giving them trouble. That, or stupid. And I don't think a stupid company would get to where Google is today.
- kryptiskt 5y ago
  No, it would take a company that realizes that they already are flying close to the envelope and that they are in deep anti-trust shit already. That is, a company with some common sense among the leadership who can see where the wind is blowing. As it is, Google and Apple have no political or business allies and lots of regulatory actions incoming. They might have done well financially so far, but they aren't in a good position.
  - shadowgovt 5y ago
    Google flies close to the envelope by existing. At their scale, a lot of what is legal and what isn't is undecided (because no other company had been big enough to raise the question).
    - 15155 5y ago
      Standard Oil
  - wccrawford 5y ago
    Under your scenario (which I realize matches real life) they would still have to think about it. They wouldn't just have an instinctive reaction without any thought. It would take a company filled with perfect people to avoid having anyone even think about doing the wrong thing. Part of being human is considering the wrong thing and then doing the right thing. (Or not, sometimes.)
MrStonedOne 5y ago
> Google is a for profit company don't expect them to act like an non profit organization I can and I will. The only remedy prescribed by capitalism to evil companies is that consumers hold them to the consumers ideals of how ethical a company must act. This can NEVER happen, if every time this comes up, somebody is making excuses for them. "Google is a for profit company of course they are gonna try to make money" Irrelevant. Stop making excuses.
jpambrun 5y ago
Your point is fair, it's reasonable for Google to consider this options and this is why antitrust regulations are needed. In this, it looks like it's time for the gouvernement to step in.
paganel 5y ago
> And one of them would be buying Epic. One would have expected a big company like Google not to take illegal choices into consideration, no matter its profit-related motives.
015a 5y ago
> Of course, if you were the ceo of Google and have something like that happen. You would ask your teams, what are the different scenarios we can explore? And one of them would be killing the CEO of Epic. What people expect? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30WTWkFe910&t=415s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30WTWkFe910&t=415s

by polote 5y ago

hdjjhhvvhga 5y ago

I don't find it surprising, either. It's just frustrating to find yet another bit of evidence you don't own a device you bought and the manufacturers think you should pay them for any little piece of software you want to run on it. One missing bit that still hasn't happened - but one day will - is the subscription required to use your device. For now it's optional (called iCloud storage etc.) - you are nagged and so on but are able to refuse, but one day it will become obligatory. It could be 10 years from on or 20, but for sure they're thinking how to do it.

moksly 5y ago
These lawsuit doesn’t really do much about ownership part though. It’s about billionaires deciding how many of them get to rent us software on the platforms that we don’t own.
kettleballroll 5y ago
OTOH, everyone dreams of building a successful SaaS, because they want to milk that model themselves.

robbedpeter 5y ago

We should be able to start with a clean slate - these companies should delete all user data that wasn't explicitly given by the user in a clear and obvious way (like profile credentials) and start from scratch. Every time any information is collected, the company should obtain consent after displaying the data to the user. A person should be able to inspect all data that had been associated with them, and to delete any or all of the data at any time. Within the personal profile, a the user should be given the option to opt-in to any and all uses of their data, with zero third party sharing unless allowed by the user on a byte-by-byte basis. If a company violates this a progressive and percentage based fine should be imposed for every day of non-compliance. Something like .01% of the company's net worth per day, increasing to 2% over the course of 30 days, half of which goes to federal enforcement and half to the user. Something painful and crippling, with teeth, and enough to incentivize people to watch out for themselves and to force companies to behave well. Data beaches should be lethal if data was leaked that wasn't obtained with consent. Faang is not entitled to surveil the lives of everyone in the world by dint of people merely visiting websites. Participation in a relationship with a person or business or community should be consensual.

kryptiskt 5y ago

It would be nice if they could take a hint from getting slapped around on anti-trust complaints. Maybe the fines aren't big enough for them to notice? I wonder if CEOs would be more amenable if getting rid of them was a possible sanction for anti-competitive behavior.

wccrawford 5y ago

Yup. It's take a pretty altruistic company not to even think about buying out someone who was giving them trouble. That, or stupid. And I don't think a stupid company would get to where Google is today.

kryptiskt 5y ago
No, it would take a company that realizes that they already are flying close to the envelope and that they are in deep anti-trust shit already. That is, a company with some common sense among the leadership who can see where the wind is blowing. As it is, Google and Apple have no political or business allies and lots of regulatory actions incoming. They might have done well financially so far, but they aren't in a good position.
- shadowgovt 5y ago
  Google flies close to the envelope by existing. At their scale, a lot of what is legal and what isn't is undecided (because no other company had been big enough to raise the question).
  - 15155 5y ago
    Standard Oil
- wccrawford 5y ago
  Under your scenario (which I realize matches real life) they would still have to think about it. They wouldn't just have an instinctive reaction without any thought. It would take a company filled with perfect people to avoid having anyone even think about doing the wrong thing. Part of being human is considering the wrong thing and then doing the right thing. (Or not, sometimes.)

MrStonedOne 5y ago

> Google is a for profit company don't expect them to act like an non profit organization I can and I will. The only remedy prescribed by capitalism to evil companies is that consumers hold them to the consumers ideals of how ethical a company must act. This can NEVER happen, if every time this comes up, somebody is making excuses for them. "Google is a for profit company of course they are gonna try to make money" Irrelevant. Stop making excuses.

jpambrun 5y ago

Your point is fair, it's reasonable for Google to consider this options and this is why antitrust regulations are needed. In this, it looks like it's time for the gouvernement to step in.

paganel 5y ago

> And one of them would be buying Epic. One would have expected a big company like Google not to take illegal choices into consideration, no matter its profit-related motives.

015a 5y ago

> Of course, if you were the ceo of Google and have something like that happen. You would ask your teams, what are the different scenarios we can explore? And one of them would be killing the CEO of Epic. What people expect? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30WTWkFe910&t=415s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30WTWkFe910&t=415s