4 ms·

This is not plain text. Plain text by definition is plain. It's like calling LaTeX plain text.

by kissgyorgy 5y ago

danallison 5y ago
Calculist is plain text in the same way that markdown is plain text. Calculist is not WYSIWYG.
- capableweb 5y ago
  That's why Calculist is not actually plain text. Markdown is not plain text! > Markdown is a lightweight markup language for creating formatted text > Markdown, the simple and easy-to-use markup language > Markdown's syntax is intended for one purpose: to be used as a format for writing for the web It's formatted text or also called rich text.
  - afarviral 5y ago
    It can be compiled to HTML and when viewed in a suitable viewer could be considered rich text, but markdown files are plaintext. Code sourcefiles are also plaintext. However, I think there should be another term (clean text?) that refers to text abscent of symbols which represent the markup. It would aid in conversation. For instance you might want to parse an HTML formatted document and be left with just the words and certain punctuation, or clean text (or something).
    - kissgyorgy 5y ago
      If code source files are plain text, I'm a bacteria.
- Abishek_Muthian 5y ago
  Hi, Couldn't try as download wasn't available but seems like a great tool from reading other comments. Btw, the GitHub sources are 4 years old and so is the latest release; Are you renewing the project again? I'm currently brainstorming a notes platform for second order thinking[1], Say like a community submitted scenarios for second-order, third-order thinking. Would Calculist be a good fit for such notes? [1] https://needgap.com/problems/263-plan-second-order-third-order-consequences-mentalmodel-cognitivescience https://needgap.com/problems/263-plan-second-order-third-ord... (Disclaimer: My platform)
jonsen 5y ago
Thus, representations such as SGML, RTF, HTML, XML, wiki markup, and TeX, as well as nearly all programming language source code files, are considered plain text. The particular content is irrelevant to whether a file is plain text. For example, an SVG file can express drawings or even bitmapped graphics, but is still plain text.: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plain_text https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plain_text
hansvm 5y ago
I'm not sure I like the analogy as a proof this can't be plain text; my professors and I would often use LaTeX snippets when communicating over plain-text mediums like e-mail -- not to later render into something nicer, but left as-is since it fit the problem domain well and allowed us to quickly communicate ideas that needed some degree of precision. Even if you're firmly in the "code can't be plain text" camp I think you'll agree that LaTeX used in that fashion still counts.
- eurasiantiger 5y ago
  Interesting edge case, this one. Rich text is commonly called that because there is a GUI editor that transparently converts the markup to different styles. However, that clearly doesn’t apply to markup that is common enough to become a medium of communication. Then, the question is, where to draw the line? One could argue that markdown only provides minimal semantic structure, and as such is akin to punctuation, which hasn’t always existed in ”plain text”, either. I think some new categories are needed. Effectively, the standard ones would be something like: 1. Unstructured text: edited and viewed in plain text editor, formatting limited to whitespace 2. Rich text: edited and viewed in GUI editor with unconstrained structured and unstructured formatting 3. Structured text: markdown, LaTeX, etc. Edited as plain text with minimal markup, viewed by rendering source document in GUI, with automatic formatting based on structure and chosen style 4a. Program code, human-written and -readable 4b. Program code, automatically generated (JS bundles, etc) 5. Machine code as binary
bmn__ 5y ago
You are correct, my thread neighbours and the article are not. The definitions (compatible with Unicode §2.2) are: 1. Plain text: text without mark-up 2. Code and formatted/rich text (e.g. LaTeX, CSV, Markdown, HN comment): text with mark-up or conforming to a grammar with attached semantics. 3. binary (e.g. an ELF executable)
onetom 5y ago
In the more distant past, when we didn't have a lot of "markup formats", "plain text format" just meant the opposite of "binary format", where "plain" was just emphasising its human readability. But I wrote my first BASIC program around the age of 7, in 1984 and the first and shortly after learnt Forth on a ZX Spectrum. So that's my perspective. We wrote programs, which controlled a Roland DG DXY-880. That also used a plain text programing language. I was not speaking a lot of English at that time, so mirror translating back from Hungarian, we said, "textual format" or "plain, textual format" ("síma, szöveges formátum"), to contrast its simplicity with binary formats. (I was born and raised in Szeged though, so that could be just our regional dialect. How about you?)

This is not plain text. Plain text by definition is plain. It's like calling LaTeX plain text.

danallison 5y ago

Calculist is plain text in the same way that markdown is plain text. Calculist is not WYSIWYG.

capableweb 5y ago
That's why Calculist is not actually plain text. Markdown is not plain text! > Markdown is a lightweight markup language for creating formatted text > Markdown, the simple and easy-to-use markup language > Markdown's syntax is intended for one purpose: to be used as a format for writing for the web It's formatted text or also called rich text.
- afarviral 5y ago
  It can be compiled to HTML and when viewed in a suitable viewer could be considered rich text, but markdown files are plaintext. Code sourcefiles are also plaintext. However, I think there should be another term (clean text?) that refers to text abscent of symbols which represent the markup. It would aid in conversation. For instance you might want to parse an HTML formatted document and be left with just the words and certain punctuation, or clean text (or something).
  - kissgyorgy 5y ago
    If code source files are plain text, I'm a bacteria.
Abishek_Muthian 5y ago
Hi, Couldn't try as download wasn't available but seems like a great tool from reading other comments. Btw, the GitHub sources are 4 years old and so is the latest release; Are you renewing the project again? I'm currently brainstorming a notes platform for second order thinking[1], Say like a community submitted scenarios for second-order, third-order thinking. Would Calculist be a good fit for such notes? [1] https://needgap.com/problems/263-plan-second-order-third-order-consequences-mentalmodel-cognitivescience https://needgap.com/problems/263-plan-second-order-third-ord... (Disclaimer: My platform)

jonsen 5y ago

Thus, representations such as SGML, RTF, HTML, XML, wiki markup, and TeX, as well as nearly all programming language source code files, are considered plain text. The particular content is irrelevant to whether a file is plain text. For example, an SVG file can express drawings or even bitmapped graphics, but is still plain text.: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plain_text https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plain_text

hansvm 5y ago

I'm not sure I like the analogy as a proof this can't be plain text; my professors and I would often use LaTeX snippets when communicating over plain-text mediums like e-mail -- not to later render into something nicer, but left as-is since it fit the problem domain well and allowed us to quickly communicate ideas that needed some degree of precision. Even if you're firmly in the "code can't be plain text" camp I think you'll agree that LaTeX used in that fashion still counts.

eurasiantiger 5y ago
Interesting edge case, this one. Rich text is commonly called that because there is a GUI editor that transparently converts the markup to different styles. However, that clearly doesn’t apply to markup that is common enough to become a medium of communication. Then, the question is, where to draw the line? One could argue that markdown only provides minimal semantic structure, and as such is akin to punctuation, which hasn’t always existed in ”plain text”, either. I think some new categories are needed. Effectively, the standard ones would be something like: 1. Unstructured text: edited and viewed in plain text editor, formatting limited to whitespace 2. Rich text: edited and viewed in GUI editor with unconstrained structured and unstructured formatting 3. Structured text: markdown, LaTeX, etc. Edited as plain text with minimal markup, viewed by rendering source document in GUI, with automatic formatting based on structure and chosen style 4a. Program code, human-written and -readable 4b. Program code, automatically generated (JS bundles, etc) 5. Machine code as binary

bmn__ 5y ago

You are correct, my thread neighbours and the article are not. The definitions (compatible with Unicode §2.2) are: 1. Plain text: text without mark-up 2. Code and formatted/rich text (e.g. LaTeX, CSV, Markdown, HN comment): text with mark-up or conforming to a grammar with attached semantics. 3. binary (e.g. an ELF executable)

onetom 5y ago

In the more distant past, when we didn't have a lot of "markup formats", "plain text format" just meant the opposite of "binary format", where "plain" was just emphasising its human readability. But I wrote my first BASIC program around the age of 7, in 1984 and the first and shortly after learnt Forth on a ZX Spectrum. So that's my perspective. We wrote programs, which controlled a Roland DG DXY-880. That also used a plain text programing language. I was not speaking a lot of English at that time, so mirror translating back from Hungarian, we said, "textual format" or "plain, textual format" ("síma, szöveges formátum"), to contrast its simplicity with binary formats. (I was born and raised in Szeged though, so that could be just our regional dialect. How about you?)