3 ms·

How is it possible for thrusters to fire without a) human oversight and b) nobody knowing?

by jollybean 5y ago

atatatat 5y ago
"Computers never lie, kid!"
ComodoHacker 5y ago
Simple: the module was out of comm reach at the moment.
- jollybean 5y ago
  That's not 'simple'. The module should be integrated with the other modules such that any control terminal on the station should highlight that information. Moreover, one would imagine that applying thrust should generally require some oversight and that it should not be automated unless there's an emergency in which case there would be appropriate alarms.
  - NavinF 5y ago
    The module will be integrated over the next few months. It's not as simple as just docking the module and expecting all the wiring and software config to kick in automatically.
    - MrStonedOne 5y ago
      It could be thou.
jjk166 5y ago
It's an autopilot with no communication connection. What would be the alternative, drifting uncontrolled whenever it's outside of communication range?
- jollybean 5y ago
  It's not out of 'communication range' with personnel aboard the station. An ultra basic integration of alarms and communications would be the minimum requirement to allow personnel to monitor and modify mission critical systems.
  - jjk166 5y ago
    It was prior to docking. It was a separate entity which had to fly itself without continuous communication to the station in order to be integrated. The entire problem was that the module did not recognize that it was docked with the station and was trying to maneuver itself. Why would you put in a "tell the station to which you are attached that you are firing your thrusters which should never be fired while attached to the station" signal?
    - kfarr 5y ago
      It's not a crazy suggestion to have ability for an emergency stop or docking success signal sent from the station to the module.
      - jjk166 5y ago
        The problem was that the "docking success signal" was not properly recieved. The very presence of an emergency stop system should be a signal that the thrusters should not activate, if you are ever in a situation where you would desire to send an emergency stop signal, it is because that emergency stop system has already failed.
        jollybean 5y ago
        "The problem was that the "docking success signal" was not properly recieved." Then it's not docked and docking procedures should be observed by all personnel as a serious ongoing operational concern, right? So, if there is integration, which there hopefully would be, that there wasn't proper integration would imply something bad. Otherwise, while the crew obviously believed it to be docked, why wasn't the auto-correcting features etc. on the Russian module disabled while it's docked? Again, as part of the docking procedure?
krisoft 5y ago
I tell you how it is possible: it is both a bug, and a design issue. To say anything deeper about the whys one would need that investigation.
alisonkisk 5y ago
a) software b) outer space

How is it possible for thrusters to fire without a) human oversight and b) nobody knowing?

atatatat 5y ago

"Computers never lie, kid!"

ComodoHacker 5y ago

Simple: the module was out of comm reach at the moment.

jollybean 5y ago
That's not 'simple'. The module should be integrated with the other modules such that any control terminal on the station should highlight that information. Moreover, one would imagine that applying thrust should generally require some oversight and that it should not be automated unless there's an emergency in which case there would be appropriate alarms.
- NavinF 5y ago
  The module will be integrated over the next few months. It's not as simple as just docking the module and expecting all the wiring and software config to kick in automatically.
  - MrStonedOne 5y ago
    It could be thou.

jjk166 5y ago

It's an autopilot with no communication connection. What would be the alternative, drifting uncontrolled whenever it's outside of communication range?

jollybean 5y ago
It's not out of 'communication range' with personnel aboard the station. An ultra basic integration of alarms and communications would be the minimum requirement to allow personnel to monitor and modify mission critical systems.
- jjk166 5y ago
  It was prior to docking. It was a separate entity which had to fly itself without continuous communication to the station in order to be integrated. The entire problem was that the module did not recognize that it was docked with the station and was trying to maneuver itself. Why would you put in a "tell the station to which you are attached that you are firing your thrusters which should never be fired while attached to the station" signal?
  - kfarr 5y ago
    It's not a crazy suggestion to have ability for an emergency stop or docking success signal sent from the station to the module.
    - jjk166 5y ago
      The problem was that the "docking success signal" was not properly recieved. The very presence of an emergency stop system should be a signal that the thrusters should not activate, if you are ever in a situation where you would desire to send an emergency stop signal, it is because that emergency stop system has already failed.
      - jollybean 5y ago
        "The problem was that the "docking success signal" was not properly recieved." Then it's not docked and docking procedures should be observed by all personnel as a serious ongoing operational concern, right? So, if there is integration, which there hopefully would be, that there wasn't proper integration would imply something bad. Otherwise, while the crew obviously believed it to be docked, why wasn't the auto-correcting features etc. on the Russian module disabled while it's docked? Again, as part of the docking procedure?

krisoft 5y ago

I tell you how it is possible: it is both a bug, and a design issue. To say anything deeper about the whys one would need that investigation.

alisonkisk 5y ago

a) software b) outer space