7 ms·

I think you're confused about the definition of befuddle. be·fud·dle 1. To confuse; perplex. 2. To stupefy with or as if with alcoholic drink. Customs agent

I think you're confused about the definition of befuddle. be·fud·dle 1. To confuse; perplex. 2. To stupefy with or as if with alcoholic drink. Customs agents didn't flag him for his involvement in bitcoin; they didn't understand what it was and how he could possibly fund his trip with it.

chc 15y ago
Or they didn't believe it was as good as cash, which is kind of a fair assessment. The guy he was going to meet might not have had the cash after all, and without a buyer, the Bitcoins have no intrinsic value. Saying that you have a suitcase full of collectable pins that you intend to trade with a guy for $1500 would probably not get you into the US either.
- barrkel 15y ago
  If you really had pins for trade, you'd have to declare them on the customs form (you'd be importing them), and selling them would likely count as commerce not valid for a tourist visa.
  - chc 15y ago
    IIRC, he was on a Visa Waiver, so I don't think that applies.
    - bdonlan 15y ago
      You can only get a visa waiver if you fall within the requirements of a tourist visa, plus additional restrictions. And visa waiver entry still requires that you fill out a customs form.
      - jrockway 15y ago
        If you are carrying more than $10,000 worth of securities or cash, you have to declare that. But there's absolutely nothing wrong with owning more than $10,000 worth of securities and liquidating them while you're visiting the US. Here's the official government documentation on the matter: http://www.cbp.gov/linkhandler/cgov/newsroom/publications/travel/currency_rpt_flyer/currency_reporting.ctt/currency_reporting.pdf http://www.cbp.gov/linkhandler/cgov/newsroom/publications/tr... "If you receive in the US, currency ... exceeding $10,0000 at one time ... you must file Form 105."
        eli 15y ago
        But everyone entering the United States has to fill out a customs declaration that lists the value of goods being brought into the country.
        jrockway 15y ago
        If you have $9,999 in your wallet and a bank account with $1,000,000,000,000, though, you don't have to mention cash on your customs declaration form.
        semanticist 15y ago
        What if you have US$10,000 in your bitcoin wallet on your laptop? Is that the same as US$10,000 worth of collectable pins in your suitcase, or the same as US$10,000 worth of code/IP on your laptop (which I can't imagine anyone declaring in customs)?
        dublinclontarf 15y ago
        What if the bitcoin wallet isnt on your laptop but in the cloud?
        semanticist 15y ago
        Then it's the same as any other asset you have access to but isn't liquid, so it's not an interesting question when you're talking about how much you can take through customs without declaring it.
      - barrkel 15y ago
        The visa waiver can be for tourism or for business. It has two checkboxes. When I visit the US, it's for work meetings, so I check business.
mullr 15y ago
I DO know what bitcoin is, and I don't understand how he could possibly fund his trip with it. Doesn't seem like the top of the list for liquid assets, i.e. what you need when travelling. Part of their job is to make sure you can fund your trip. This guy couldn't, from a variety of reasonable interpretations.
- cfgvjkljhgfb 15y ago
  There are places where you can sell your bitcoins for worthless pieces of paper with pictures of dead US politician on them. It's the same process that makes pork bellies exchangeable for bits of German automotive engineering
- westicle 15y ago
  You genuinely don't understand how he could possibly fund his trip with bitcoins? Or are you exaggerating to make a point? I think it is conceivable that he could fund his trip by bartering for the majority of his food and/or lodging using bitcoins. That is, it is a possibility that there are people in the United States who will accept bitcoins in return for providing food and/or lodging. And presumably as a "digital currency guru" he would be able to identify those people and effect payment with the agreed upon medium. He even has a fallback option of cash if there is something he cannot acquire through the use of this bitcoins.
  - mullr 15y ago
    Indeed, I exaggerate a bit. But I think @praptak above expresses the issue admirably. It's not a question of possibility so much as one of trust, and it's a customs agent's job to be wary.
- mckoss 15y ago
  I had cash in my office ready to exchange for Bitcoin when Nefario was to come to Seattle. It's no different than trading at MtGox.
  - praptak 15y ago

chc 15y ago

Or they didn't believe it was as good as cash, which is kind of a fair assessment. The guy he was going to meet might not have had the cash after all, and without a buyer, the Bitcoins have no intrinsic value. Saying that you have a suitcase full of collectable pins that you intend to trade with a guy for $1500 would probably not get you into the US either.

barrkel 15y ago
If you really had pins for trade, you'd have to declare them on the customs form (you'd be importing them), and selling them would likely count as commerce not valid for a tourist visa.
- chc 15y ago
  IIRC, he was on a Visa Waiver, so I don't think that applies.
  - bdonlan 15y ago
    You can only get a visa waiver if you fall within the requirements of a tourist visa, plus additional restrictions. And visa waiver entry still requires that you fill out a customs form.
    - jrockway 15y ago
      If you are carrying more than $10,000 worth of securities or cash, you have to declare that. But there's absolutely nothing wrong with owning more than $10,000 worth of securities and liquidating them while you're visiting the US. Here's the official government documentation on the matter: http://www.cbp.gov/linkhandler/cgov/newsroom/publications/travel/currency_rpt_flyer/currency_reporting.ctt/currency_reporting.pdf http://www.cbp.gov/linkhandler/cgov/newsroom/publications/tr... "If you receive in the US, currency ... exceeding $10,0000 at one time ... you must file Form 105."
      - eli 15y ago
        But everyone entering the United States has to fill out a customs declaration that lists the value of goods being brought into the country.
        jrockway 15y ago
        If you have $9,999 in your wallet and a bank account with $1,000,000,000,000, though, you don't have to mention cash on your customs declaration form.
        semanticist 15y ago
        What if you have US$10,000 in your bitcoin wallet on your laptop? Is that the same as US$10,000 worth of collectable pins in your suitcase, or the same as US$10,000 worth of code/IP on your laptop (which I can't imagine anyone declaring in customs)?
        dublinclontarf 15y ago
        What if the bitcoin wallet isnt on your laptop but in the cloud?
        semanticist 15y ago
        Then it's the same as any other asset you have access to but isn't liquid, so it's not an interesting question when you're talking about how much you can take through customs without declaring it.
    - barrkel 15y ago
      The visa waiver can be for tourism or for business. It has two checkboxes. When I visit the US, it's for work meetings, so I check business.

mullr 15y ago

I DO know what bitcoin is, and I don't understand how he could possibly fund his trip with it. Doesn't seem like the top of the list for liquid assets, i.e. what you need when travelling. Part of their job is to make sure you can fund your trip. This guy couldn't, from a variety of reasonable interpretations.

cfgvjkljhgfb 15y ago
There are places where you can sell your bitcoins for worthless pieces of paper with pictures of dead US politician on them. It's the same process that makes pork bellies exchangeable for bits of German automotive engineering
westicle 15y ago
You genuinely don't understand how he could possibly fund his trip with bitcoins? Or are you exaggerating to make a point? I think it is conceivable that he could fund his trip by bartering for the majority of his food and/or lodging using bitcoins. That is, it is a possibility that there are people in the United States who will accept bitcoins in return for providing food and/or lodging. And presumably as a "digital currency guru" he would be able to identify those people and effect payment with the agreed upon medium. He even has a fallback option of cash if there is something he cannot acquire through the use of this bitcoins.
- mullr 15y ago
  Indeed, I exaggerate a bit. But I think @praptak above expresses the issue admirably. It's not a question of possibility so much as one of trust, and it's a customs agent's job to be wary.
mckoss 15y ago
I had cash in my office ready to exchange for Bitcoin when Nefario was to come to Seattle. It's no different than trading at MtGox.
- praptak 15y ago