4 ms·

I definitely think we are in the first stages of decline. Had the capital riots gone a little differently I could see a civil war starting that would destroy A

by yao420 5y ago

I definitely think we are in the first stages of decline. Had the capital riots gone a little differently I could see a civil war starting that would destroy America.

gruez 5y ago
>Had the capital riots gone a little differently I could see a civil war starting that would destroy America. So what, they make it into the senate chambers, kill some politicians for being traitors, and then what? declare a coup and expect everyone to take them seriously?
- rayiner 5y ago
  And even if they flip the Capitol Police, what do they do when Maryland and Virginia roll their national guards through DC? We’ve survived assassination of the President on multiple occasions. I have no idea what people think the January 6 rioters could have done to meaningfully affect the country. It was a very small populist uprising that was quickly put down. (We’ve dealt with those too—Whiskey Rebellion, etc.)
  - tshaddox 5y ago
    > what do they do when Maryland and Virginia roll their national guards through DC? That’s literally the civil war the commenter was talking about.
  - reducesuffering 5y ago
    Trump declaring martial law and increased powers under the pretense that our legislature would be incapacitated and the resulting shit storm of animosity between Democrats and Republicans. Many of his supporters and closest personal allies were waiting to seize an opportunity for this end.
    - noduerme 5y ago
      Trump would have been happy to do that. He might have even thought it was possible on that day. In the end, he couldn't do it because he didn't have the key support necessary from the military or his own DOJ. Because that would be a step too far. The bureaucracy, even stacked with his own appointees, had no interest in seeing armed conflict. To be cynical, whatever he was offering just wasn't enough to take that bet.
      - rualca 5y ago
        > (...) He might have even thought it was possible on that day. In the end, he couldn't do it (...) I don't see how claiming that you believe a few challenges would pop up along the way can refute the fact that Trump's goal was to overthrow the democratic process to force himself into staying in power in spite of the election results. Quoting Mike Pence, on rejecting Trump's threats on Jan 6 insurrection: > "There are those in our party who believed that in my position as presiding officer over the joint session that I possess the authority to reject or return electoral votes certified by the states," Pence said. "But the Constitution provides the vice president with no such authority." https://www.reuters.com/world/us/pence-proud-his-jan-6-actions-despite-criticism-trump-2021-06-25/ https://www.reuters.com/world/us/pence-proud-his-jan-6-actio...
        noduerme 5y ago
        Huh? I said it was his goal. Your edit with Pence is confirming my point. Trump wanted to overthrow the government and his own appointees wouldn't go along with it because he wasn't offering enough assurance they'd get away with it. Re-read what I wrote.
        rualca 5y ago
        I don't think you were able to read or understand what I pointed out. It's immaterial what you thought was or was not possible. The relevant part is that the president of the US of A, along with his political party, thought it was possible to overthrow the elections they lost to preserve themselves in power, and executed their plan to overthrow the elections. That's what the Vice President stated. Which part do you want to deny? Even though the VP stated he intentionally rejected the president's plan, let's keep in mind that the president's plan also involved assassinating him along with members of Congress as part of his plan to overthrow the elections. Which part exactly do you not accept?

by yao420 5y ago

I definitely think we are in the first stages of decline. Had the capital riots gone a little differently I could see a civil war starting that would destroy America.

gruez 5y ago

>Had the capital riots gone a little differently I could see a civil war starting that would destroy America. So what, they make it into the senate chambers, kill some politicians for being traitors, and then what? declare a coup and expect everyone to take them seriously?

rayiner 5y ago
And even if they flip the Capitol Police, what do they do when Maryland and Virginia roll their national guards through DC? We’ve survived assassination of the President on multiple occasions. I have no idea what people think the January 6 rioters could have done to meaningfully affect the country. It was a very small populist uprising that was quickly put down. (We’ve dealt with those too—Whiskey Rebellion, etc.)
- tshaddox 5y ago
  > what do they do when Maryland and Virginia roll their national guards through DC? That’s literally the civil war the commenter was talking about.
- reducesuffering 5y ago
  Trump declaring martial law and increased powers under the pretense that our legislature would be incapacitated and the resulting shit storm of animosity between Democrats and Republicans. Many of his supporters and closest personal allies were waiting to seize an opportunity for this end.
  - noduerme 5y ago
    Trump would have been happy to do that. He might have even thought it was possible on that day. In the end, he couldn't do it because he didn't have the key support necessary from the military or his own DOJ. Because that would be a step too far. The bureaucracy, even stacked with his own appointees, had no interest in seeing armed conflict. To be cynical, whatever he was offering just wasn't enough to take that bet.
    - rualca 5y ago
      > (...) He might have even thought it was possible on that day. In the end, he couldn't do it (...) I don't see how claiming that you believe a few challenges would pop up along the way can refute the fact that Trump's goal was to overthrow the democratic process to force himself into staying in power in spite of the election results. Quoting Mike Pence, on rejecting Trump's threats on Jan 6 insurrection: > "There are those in our party who believed that in my position as presiding officer over the joint session that I possess the authority to reject or return electoral votes certified by the states," Pence said. "But the Constitution provides the vice president with no such authority." https://www.reuters.com/world/us/pence-proud-his-jan-6-actions-despite-criticism-trump-2021-06-25/ https://www.reuters.com/world/us/pence-proud-his-jan-6-actio...
      - noduerme 5y ago
        Huh? I said it was his goal. Your edit with Pence is confirming my point. Trump wanted to overthrow the government and his own appointees wouldn't go along with it because he wasn't offering enough assurance they'd get away with it. Re-read what I wrote.
        rualca 5y ago
        I don't think you were able to read or understand what I pointed out. It's immaterial what you thought was or was not possible. The relevant part is that the president of the US of A, along with his political party, thought it was possible to overthrow the elections they lost to preserve themselves in power, and executed their plan to overthrow the elections. That's what the Vice President stated. Which part do you want to deny? Even though the VP stated he intentionally rejected the president's plan, let's keep in mind that the president's plan also involved assassinating him along with members of Congress as part of his plan to overthrow the elections. Which part exactly do you not accept?