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We're defending him because the accusations against him are egregiously exaggerated, and without proof. I'm against screaming, but infrequent/involuntary scream

We're defending him because the accusations against him are egregiously exaggerated, and without proof. I'm against screaming, but infrequent/involuntary screaming by a very senior exec does happen, and in my opinion, cannot be called abusive. In fact, I would be upset if I had a sheep for an exec. I want a exec who is kind, and who can lead and is firm. Not screaming, but almost there.

mLuby 5y ago
> screaming by a very senior exec is common place and cannot be called abusive It is possible that what's been acceptable for a long time is no longer okay. At the very least, I'd say tantrum are unprofessional; After all, if the exec is losing their shit over something minor, how can I trust them to keep a level head if things really get challenging? But maybe some people respond better to the stick than to the carrot, or to a reasoned explanation of why the cart needs to go to market.
- truetraveller 5y ago
  I'm against screaming. But doing someone once or twice in year, is not the same as doing something everyday. There's no mention, at all, about how frequent his outbursts / yelling / screaming was. This is precisely the issue.
  - sjg007 5y ago
    There’s no place for screaming at someone in the workplace or even in the home unless someone’s life is in danger and you’re trying to save them. It’s low EQ.
    - lazide 5y ago
      Amen. Literally the only time I can think it might be a reasonable thing is to scream ‘watch out’ or the equivalent in a noisy environment at someone about to get run over or hit by something. And then it should kick off an investigation as to why that was necessary, because it shouldn’t be. That said, I’ve definitely seen people say someone was screaming at them when nothing of the sort even remotely happened. So your mileage may vary.
  - sjg007 5y ago
    I think people need to read up on psychopaths and sociopaths. Realize it’s a spectrum but this behavior is the basis of cults. People here would be good to educate themselves. In the UK this is called anti social behavior.
Volundr 5y ago
> I'm against screaming, but infrequent/involuntary screaming by a very senior exec is common place. What?! I've worked with executives most of my career. Screaming was definitely not common place. I can only recall 2 examples, and neither lasted long or had any business being in a position of power. And what even is "involuntary screaming"? Has the executive just broken their leg or something? If so OK. But if they're just yelling at an employee about work, it's not "involuntary". > cannot be called abusive. It can. I'm calling it abusive to scream at an employee. > In fact, I would be upset if I had a sheep for an exec. I want a exec who is kind, and who can lead and is firm. Not screaming, but almost there. I don't want an exec whose almost screaming. I want an exec who is in control. Screaming is the antithesis of that.
- truetraveller 5y ago
  I agree that is not "common place" in every industry. I've removed that bit. It does happen, and and it becomes "normalized" as "that manager is just being himself". But, there is no mention that he frequently screamed. Screaming once or twice, out of stress perhaps, is not "abusive". Definitely, one should make amends / be regretful of that.
  - Volundr 5y ago
    Once or twice a year? Maybe once or twice a career if a family member has just died or something I could excuse it. But multiple times a year is a pattern. I've somehow gone 10 years without screaming at an employee, and it's not something I'd tolerate from any of my managers. Definitely not from an executive. The higher your rise the more responsibility you have to model proper behavior. If you can't handle the stress of being an executive and control yourself you have no business being one. Barring maybe some safety issue (screaming at an employee to stop before to they drive into a ditch), there is no good reason to scream at an employee. If firing is justified you do it calmly and dispassionately. If it's just behavior that needs corrected, you do it calmly and firmly. Screaming weakens your message and makes you seem erratic and out of control.
    - truetraveller 5y ago
jspash 5y ago
Is this a common thing outside Silicon Valley? The US? Having worked almost ny entire professional life outside of the States I have never, not once, heard of this happening. And it would absolutely not be tolerated in any professional organisation that I’ve been part of. Or have I just been lucky not to have come across this type of behaviour?
- etothepii 5y ago
  You have just been lucky, back office technology when I used to work for a large bank in the UK there was a manager who would routinely shout at everyone. He was repeatedly promoted and seen as a person who "got things done." I really pitied the juniors who learned to model this as what "good" looked like, I suspect it has genuinely harmed their long term life prospects. In response to complaints it was always, "he's a Southern European, they're passionate," that came as the response. So not unusual at all.
  - etothepii 5y ago
    I suspect this is now to be known as the Cuomo defence.
mcguire 5y ago
"...but infrequent/involuntary screaming by a very senior exec does happen,..." After about 30 years in the industry, I suggest you reconsider your experience. The only place I've worked that had any kind of executive screaming was IBM, which was completely disfunctional. Someone who involuntarily screams at a coworker is someone who needs help.
- truetraveller 5y ago
  There's a difference between one-off and frequent. Very big difference. A question to everyone: You screamed at anyone, ever? Oh, you screamed once, 5 years ago? Now you're a bully.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - orestarod 5y ago
    Of course if you scream you are a bully. Because you can only scream to someone in a lower position than you, by definition, and that is cowardice. You become outright hostile and let loose your childish immature selfish self because you feel safe and powerful enough to do so. That, is dysfunctional and unhonorablr and that's why I never scream.
Fomite 5y ago
My grandfather screamed at his employees. It was abusive, and everyone knew it.
rsynnott 5y ago
> but infrequent/involuntary screaming by a very senior exec does happen Eh, sorry, no. I mean, maybe if you drop a book on their foot or something, but if it's just screaming at employees as part of their work, then they should probably be looking for a less demanding job.
PhasmaFelis 5y ago
> I'm against screaming, but infrequent/involuntary screaming by a very senior exec does happen, and in my opinion, cannot be called abusive. There is no situation where screaming at employees is okay unless they're actively endangering lives. If somebody loses their shit and flies off the handle, then calms down and apologizes and doesn't do it again, that's forgivable. That doesn't mean it was acceptable to do it in the first place.

mLuby 5y ago

> screaming by a very senior exec is common place and cannot be called abusive It is possible that what's been acceptable for a long time is no longer okay. At the very least, I'd say tantrum are unprofessional; After all, if the exec is losing their shit over something minor, how can I trust them to keep a level head if things really get challenging? But maybe some people respond better to the stick than to the carrot, or to a reasoned explanation of why the cart needs to go to market.

truetraveller 5y ago
I'm against screaming. But doing someone once or twice in year, is not the same as doing something everyday. There's no mention, at all, about how frequent his outbursts / yelling / screaming was. This is precisely the issue.
- sjg007 5y ago
  There’s no place for screaming at someone in the workplace or even in the home unless someone’s life is in danger and you’re trying to save them. It’s low EQ.
  - lazide 5y ago
    Amen. Literally the only time I can think it might be a reasonable thing is to scream ‘watch out’ or the equivalent in a noisy environment at someone about to get run over or hit by something. And then it should kick off an investigation as to why that was necessary, because it shouldn’t be. That said, I’ve definitely seen people say someone was screaming at them when nothing of the sort even remotely happened. So your mileage may vary.
- sjg007 5y ago
  I think people need to read up on psychopaths and sociopaths. Realize it’s a spectrum but this behavior is the basis of cults. People here would be good to educate themselves. In the UK this is called anti social behavior.

Volundr 5y ago

> I'm against screaming, but infrequent/involuntary screaming by a very senior exec is common place. What?! I've worked with executives most of my career. Screaming was definitely not common place. I can only recall 2 examples, and neither lasted long or had any business being in a position of power. And what even is "involuntary screaming"? Has the executive just broken their leg or something? If so OK. But if they're just yelling at an employee about work, it's not "involuntary". > cannot be called abusive. It can. I'm calling it abusive to scream at an employee. > In fact, I would be upset if I had a sheep for an exec. I want a exec who is kind, and who can lead and is firm. Not screaming, but almost there. I don't want an exec whose almost screaming. I want an exec who is in control. Screaming is the antithesis of that.

truetraveller 5y ago
I agree that is not "common place" in every industry. I've removed that bit. It does happen, and and it becomes "normalized" as "that manager is just being himself". But, there is no mention that he frequently screamed. Screaming once or twice, out of stress perhaps, is not "abusive". Definitely, one should make amends / be regretful of that.
- Volundr 5y ago
  Once or twice a year? Maybe once or twice a career if a family member has just died or something I could excuse it. But multiple times a year is a pattern. I've somehow gone 10 years without screaming at an employee, and it's not something I'd tolerate from any of my managers. Definitely not from an executive. The higher your rise the more responsibility you have to model proper behavior. If you can't handle the stress of being an executive and control yourself you have no business being one. Barring maybe some safety issue (screaming at an employee to stop before to they drive into a ditch), there is no good reason to scream at an employee. If firing is justified you do it calmly and dispassionately. If it's just behavior that needs corrected, you do it calmly and firmly. Screaming weakens your message and makes you seem erratic and out of control.
  - truetraveller 5y ago

jspash 5y ago

Is this a common thing outside Silicon Valley? The US? Having worked almost ny entire professional life outside of the States I have never, not once, heard of this happening. And it would absolutely not be tolerated in any professional organisation that I’ve been part of. Or have I just been lucky not to have come across this type of behaviour?

etothepii 5y ago
You have just been lucky, back office technology when I used to work for a large bank in the UK there was a manager who would routinely shout at everyone. He was repeatedly promoted and seen as a person who "got things done." I really pitied the juniors who learned to model this as what "good" looked like, I suspect it has genuinely harmed their long term life prospects. In response to complaints it was always, "he's a Southern European, they're passionate," that came as the response. So not unusual at all.
- etothepii 5y ago
  I suspect this is now to be known as the Cuomo defence.

mcguire 5y ago

"...but infrequent/involuntary screaming by a very senior exec does happen,..." After about 30 years in the industry, I suggest you reconsider your experience. The only place I've worked that had any kind of executive screaming was IBM, which was completely disfunctional. Someone who involuntarily screams at a coworker is someone who needs help.

truetraveller 5y ago
There's a difference between one-off and frequent. Very big difference. A question to everyone: You screamed at anyone, ever? Oh, you screamed once, 5 years ago? Now you're a bully.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- orestarod 5y ago
  Of course if you scream you are a bully. Because you can only scream to someone in a lower position than you, by definition, and that is cowardice. You become outright hostile and let loose your childish immature selfish self because you feel safe and powerful enough to do so. That, is dysfunctional and unhonorablr and that's why I never scream.

Fomite 5y ago

My grandfather screamed at his employees. It was abusive, and everyone knew it.

rsynnott 5y ago

> but infrequent/involuntary screaming by a very senior exec does happen Eh, sorry, no. I mean, maybe if you drop a book on their foot or something, but if it's just screaming at employees as part of their work, then they should probably be looking for a less demanding job.

PhasmaFelis 5y ago

> I'm against screaming, but infrequent/involuntary screaming by a very senior exec does happen, and in my opinion, cannot be called abusive. There is no situation where screaming at employees is okay unless they're actively endangering lives. If somebody loses their shit and flies off the handle, then calms down and apologizes and doesn't do it again, that's forgivable. That doesn't mean it was acceptable to do it in the first place.