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That poll says 74% of canadians either don't want supply management changed during nafta renegotiations, or it could be changed but only as a last resort? That

That poll says 74% of canadians either don't want supply management changed during nafta renegotiations, or it could be changed but only as a last resort? That sounds like pretty high support. edit: The later questions are misleading - they ask if people would rather buy supply managed dairy at 2.25/L or no-supply-managed dairy at 1.50/L. Meanwhile I go to the grocery store and buy supply managed dairy at 1.23/L every week. Pointing out that people would buy a cheaper product isn't really groundbreaking research...

gruez 5y ago
>That sounds like pretty high support. That's one way of spinning it. The other replies paint a different picture. Specifically: 1. https://i0.wp.com/angusreid.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/SM6.jpg?w=610&ssl=1 https://i0.wp.com/angusreid.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/S... most people prefer the non-supply managed products, taking into account the pros/cons. (emphasis mine) 2. https://i1.wp.com/angusreid.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/SM7.jpg?w=700&ssl=1 https://i1.wp.com/angusreid.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/S... only ~40% "support" it, so concluding that "most of us are very happy to support supply management" is a stretch.
- SECProto 5y ago
  > most people prefer the non-supply managed products, taking into account the pros/cons. I don't think they pros/cons they listed (i.e. price differences) are reflective of reality. Specifically, they list milk as $2.25/L, citing statscan as a source. This is $9 per 4L bag, an absurd price outside of the Territories. Reviewing the actual statscan data source [1], milk prices have been very stable at $1.25 to $1.37 per liter as long as they're been recording data. So I don't know where $2.25 came from. The second source they listed is crowdsourced and refers to milk costs as $0.62 per 0.25L which might be accurate if you're buying a 250ml or 500ml carton with your lunch ... but not if you're buying a larger quantity to take home (and to make useful economic comparisons with). > only ~40% "support" it, so concluding that "most of us are very happy to support supply management" is a stretch. That's firmly in Majority territory when it comes to Canadian politics :). There's a reason even the conservative party (the only political affiliation with more people opposed to supply management than supporting it) will not touch the issue. The most interesting data in that study was the age-based breakdown - younger respondents were much more likely to support supply management, apparently. [1] https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=1810000201&cubeTimeFrame.startMonth=02&cubeTimeFrame.startYear=2012&cubeTimeFrame.endMonth=06&cubeTimeFrame.endYear=2021&referencePeriods=20120201%2C20210601 https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=181000...
  - gruez 5y ago
    >I don't think they pros/cons they listed (i.e. price differences) are reflective of reality What makes you think the pros/cons they listed are just the price? In the linked questionnaire they have: Supporters of the system say it ensures high quality, safe products and a secure level of profit for farmers who, in turn, don’t have to worry about changing world market prices. Opponents say it restricts choices and increases prices for Canadian consumers.According to some estimates, Canadians pay 1.5 to three times what they would without supply management for these goods.Opponents also say that while the system once protected more than 150,000 farmers in the 1970’s,it now protects only about 17,000, suggesting it is less necessary or outdated That seems to line up with the arguments for/against supply management discussed in this thread. >Reviewing the actual statscan data source [1], milk prices have been very stable at $1.25 to $1.37 per liter as long as they're been recording data. So I don't know where $2.25 came from. The article was dated August 2, 2017. If we checked the archived page as of jun 17, 2017, we see the $2.33/L price figure. https://web.archive.org/web/20170617054025/http://www.statcan.gc.ca/tables-tableaux/sum-som/l01/cst01/econ155a-eng.htm https://web.archive.org/web/20170617054025/http://www.statca... As for whether the numbers are representative because people buy in bulk: does it matter? The hypothetical non-supply managed prices were obtained by taking the current price and dividing by 3 (which was the suggested price premium according to University of Calgary’s School of Public Policy), so it doesn't really matter which starting price you used. >That's firmly in Majority territory when it comes to Canadian politics :). 1. this is a sneaky moving of the goalposts from "most" to "majority" 2. Maybe en-CA has a different definition for "majority", but the definition on wiktionary unambiguously states that it has to be greater than 50%. maybe you're looking for "plurality"? 3. even if we use "plurality", using that to paint the picture that the policy has widespread support is misleading, especially when it's split pretty close 3 ways. At best it can be called "mixed". >There's a reason even the conservative party (the only political affiliation with more people opposed to supply management than supporting it) will not touch the issue. I don't get it. Why arbitrarily exclude people of a certain political affiliation? You can't say "most people disapprove of biden", then backtrack and say that it's true because you excluded all the democrats.
    - SECProto 5y ago

gruez 5y ago

>That sounds like pretty high support. That's one way of spinning it. The other replies paint a different picture. Specifically: 1. https://i0.wp.com/angusreid.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/SM6.jpg?w=610&ssl=1 https://i0.wp.com/angusreid.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/S... most people prefer the non-supply managed products, taking into account the pros/cons. (emphasis mine) 2. https://i1.wp.com/angusreid.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/SM7.jpg?w=700&ssl=1 https://i1.wp.com/angusreid.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/S... only ~40% "support" it, so concluding that "most of us are very happy to support supply management" is a stretch.

SECProto 5y ago
> most people prefer the non-supply managed products, taking into account the pros/cons. I don't think they pros/cons they listed (i.e. price differences) are reflective of reality. Specifically, they list milk as $2.25/L, citing statscan as a source. This is $9 per 4L bag, an absurd price outside of the Territories. Reviewing the actual statscan data source [1], milk prices have been very stable at $1.25 to $1.37 per liter as long as they're been recording data. So I don't know where $2.25 came from. The second source they listed is crowdsourced and refers to milk costs as $0.62 per 0.25L which might be accurate if you're buying a 250ml or 500ml carton with your lunch ... but not if you're buying a larger quantity to take home (and to make useful economic comparisons with). > only ~40% "support" it, so concluding that "most of us are very happy to support supply management" is a stretch. That's firmly in Majority territory when it comes to Canadian politics :). There's a reason even the conservative party (the only political affiliation with more people opposed to supply management than supporting it) will not touch the issue. The most interesting data in that study was the age-based breakdown - younger respondents were much more likely to support supply management, apparently. [1] https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=1810000201&cubeTimeFrame.startMonth=02&cubeTimeFrame.startYear=2012&cubeTimeFrame.endMonth=06&cubeTimeFrame.endYear=2021&referencePeriods=20120201%2C20210601 https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=181000...
- gruez 5y ago
  >I don't think they pros/cons they listed (i.e. price differences) are reflective of reality What makes you think the pros/cons they listed are just the price? In the linked questionnaire they have: Supporters of the system say it ensures high quality, safe products and a secure level of profit for farmers who, in turn, don’t have to worry about changing world market prices. Opponents say it restricts choices and increases prices for Canadian consumers.According to some estimates, Canadians pay 1.5 to three times what they would without supply management for these goods.Opponents also say that while the system once protected more than 150,000 farmers in the 1970’s,it now protects only about 17,000, suggesting it is less necessary or outdated That seems to line up with the arguments for/against supply management discussed in this thread. >Reviewing the actual statscan data source [1], milk prices have been very stable at $1.25 to $1.37 per liter as long as they're been recording data. So I don't know where $2.25 came from. The article was dated August 2, 2017. If we checked the archived page as of jun 17, 2017, we see the $2.33/L price figure. https://web.archive.org/web/20170617054025/http://www.statcan.gc.ca/tables-tableaux/sum-som/l01/cst01/econ155a-eng.htm https://web.archive.org/web/20170617054025/http://www.statca... As for whether the numbers are representative because people buy in bulk: does it matter? The hypothetical non-supply managed prices were obtained by taking the current price and dividing by 3 (which was the suggested price premium according to University of Calgary’s School of Public Policy), so it doesn't really matter which starting price you used. >That's firmly in Majority territory when it comes to Canadian politics :). 1. this is a sneaky moving of the goalposts from "most" to "majority" 2. Maybe en-CA has a different definition for "majority", but the definition on wiktionary unambiguously states that it has to be greater than 50%. maybe you're looking for "plurality"? 3. even if we use "plurality", using that to paint the picture that the policy has widespread support is misleading, especially when it's split pretty close 3 ways. At best it can be called "mixed". >There's a reason even the conservative party (the only political affiliation with more people opposed to supply management than supporting it) will not touch the issue. I don't get it. Why arbitrarily exclude people of a certain political affiliation? You can't say "most people disapprove of biden", then backtrack and say that it's true because you excluded all the democrats.
  - SECProto 5y ago