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> those who access medical cannabis legally pay on average 34 percent more for their medicine than if they bought from the unregulated market. I mean, that’s t

by Closi 5y ago

> those who access medical cannabis legally pay on average 34 percent more for their medicine than if they bought from the unregulated market. I mean, that’s true with most things isn’t it? If you buy meat from the dodgy guy in a pub then it’s cheaper. Bloke selling televisions from a van? Cheaper. Cigarettes from a corner store that have been imported from a low tax country? Cheaper. Getting the electric/gas done in your house from someone who is unlicensed? Cheaper. Not sure why we would expect this to be different.

slapfrog 5y ago
> Cigarettes from a corner store that have been imported from a low tax country? Probably just smuggled across state lines. Bought in a state with low taxes, then sold in a state with high taxes. The store pockets the taxes instead of passing them along to the state, which it can do because the cigarettes being sold were smuggled so the high-tax state doesn't have any record of them existing.
- blt 5y ago
  The comment you are replying to does not look like it was written by someone from the USA.
  - Symbiote 5y ago
    It's relatively common for cigarettes to be smuggled between EU states. You see people in Sweden with packaging with the health warning in Polish, for example.
    - smnrchrds 5y ago
      I was under the impression that anything bought within the EU single market can be legally taken anywhere within the single market, at least for personal use, without taxes and duties. Is that not the case?
      - Dma54rhs 5y ago
        You can for personal use and low quantities, but these things are sold in big quantities, it's a huge black market.
      - mollusk 5y ago
        You can as an individual. And people do that, it's sometimes refered to as alcotourism, when you cross the border to buy cheaper alcohol in the neighbouring country. Finns go to Estonia. Estonians go to Latvia. But as a company, you can't just import cigarettes or alcohol from another country and sell them at home. Cigarettes and alcohol have specific tax stamps on their packaging that make them restricted for sale in a specific country. People still do that, but at that point it's the black market.
        Closi 5y ago
        Absolutely - it's also worth saying that there is a sophisticated tracking system to trace the manufacture of cigarettes from where they were created to the point in which they are sold (and all intermediary stops) in order to ensure that the correct tax is levied (despite there being no physical borders). This means that you can scan an individual cigarette box and see where it was manufactured, what tax was paid on it and every point it has travelled through in terms of the distribution chain. This isn't fully implemented yet, but will be within the next few years.
  - Closi 5y ago
    You are correct, I'm from the UK!
asdfasgasdgasdg 5y ago
> If you buy meat from the dodgy guy in a pub then it’s cheaper. I don't know about that. First of all, I've never had a dodgy guy in a pub try to sell me meat. Second of all, the market for meat, at least in the U.S., is relatively unconstrained and therefore the prices are pretty reflective of the cost to produce (including the costs for the various middlemen in the chain, etc.). So with meat, if some dodgy guy is selling it for cheaper, it's probably because it's subpar product in some way or another. Televisions from a van? Stolen. Has nothing to do with economics -- the guy didn't pay the costs of producing those televisions, so his prices don't reflect them. Among your selection of analogies, only the cigarette one seems comparable. But even with this it's a little different. In that case, the cigs are cheaper because the tax is not being paid. That might be a factor in the black market price difference for weed in Canada, but according to this article, price manipulation by producers is a big factor, which isn't reflected in the cigarette analogy.
- Closi 5y ago
  Ha, maybe getting dodgy people selling you meat in a pub is a unique UK experience then! Of course there are differences between all of these analogies, because there isn't anything exactly like the drugs trade and everything will have a difference, I just mean that in every example I can think of where I could buy the same product from illegitimate and legitimate sources, the illegitimate source is cheaper (so I don't know why we would assume it would be any different here). > In that case, the cigs are cheaper because the tax is not being paid. Well that's interesting, as Weed sales have between 27% - 38% tax in California and OP said that there was a 34% price increase compared to illegitimate sources, so actually the tax rate is approximately equal to the difference in cost here. (Source: https://www.leafly.com/news/lifestyle/california-weed-tax-guide https://www.leafly.com/news/lifestyle/california-weed-tax-gu...)

by Closi 5y ago

slapfrog 5y ago

> Cigarettes from a corner store that have been imported from a low tax country? Probably just smuggled across state lines. Bought in a state with low taxes, then sold in a state with high taxes. The store pockets the taxes instead of passing them along to the state, which it can do because the cigarettes being sold were smuggled so the high-tax state doesn't have any record of them existing.

blt 5y ago
The comment you are replying to does not look like it was written by someone from the USA.
- Symbiote 5y ago
  It's relatively common for cigarettes to be smuggled between EU states. You see people in Sweden with packaging with the health warning in Polish, for example.
  - smnrchrds 5y ago
    I was under the impression that anything bought within the EU single market can be legally taken anywhere within the single market, at least for personal use, without taxes and duties. Is that not the case?
    - Dma54rhs 5y ago
      You can for personal use and low quantities, but these things are sold in big quantities, it's a huge black market.
    - mollusk 5y ago
      You can as an individual. And people do that, it's sometimes refered to as alcotourism, when you cross the border to buy cheaper alcohol in the neighbouring country. Finns go to Estonia. Estonians go to Latvia. But as a company, you can't just import cigarettes or alcohol from another country and sell them at home. Cigarettes and alcohol have specific tax stamps on their packaging that make them restricted for sale in a specific country. People still do that, but at that point it's the black market.
      - Closi 5y ago
        Absolutely - it's also worth saying that there is a sophisticated tracking system to trace the manufacture of cigarettes from where they were created to the point in which they are sold (and all intermediary stops) in order to ensure that the correct tax is levied (despite there being no physical borders). This means that you can scan an individual cigarette box and see where it was manufactured, what tax was paid on it and every point it has travelled through in terms of the distribution chain. This isn't fully implemented yet, but will be within the next few years.
- Closi 5y ago
  You are correct, I'm from the UK!

asdfasgasdgasdg 5y ago

> If you buy meat from the dodgy guy in a pub then it’s cheaper. I don't know about that. First of all, I've never had a dodgy guy in a pub try to sell me meat. Second of all, the market for meat, at least in the U.S., is relatively unconstrained and therefore the prices are pretty reflective of the cost to produce (including the costs for the various middlemen in the chain, etc.). So with meat, if some dodgy guy is selling it for cheaper, it's probably because it's subpar product in some way or another. Televisions from a van? Stolen. Has nothing to do with economics -- the guy didn't pay the costs of producing those televisions, so his prices don't reflect them. Among your selection of analogies, only the cigarette one seems comparable. But even with this it's a little different. In that case, the cigs are cheaper because the tax is not being paid. That might be a factor in the black market price difference for weed in Canada, but according to this article, price manipulation by producers is a big factor, which isn't reflected in the cigarette analogy.

Closi 5y ago
Ha, maybe getting dodgy people selling you meat in a pub is a unique UK experience then! Of course there are differences between all of these analogies, because there isn't anything exactly like the drugs trade and everything will have a difference, I just mean that in every example I can think of where I could buy the same product from illegitimate and legitimate sources, the illegitimate source is cheaper (so I don't know why we would assume it would be any different here). > In that case, the cigs are cheaper because the tax is not being paid. Well that's interesting, as Weed sales have between 27% - 38% tax in California and OP said that there was a 34% price increase compared to illegitimate sources, so actually the tax rate is approximately equal to the difference in cost here. (Source: https://www.leafly.com/news/lifestyle/california-weed-tax-guide https://www.leafly.com/news/lifestyle/california-weed-tax-gu...)