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What I am missing from all this story, is what triggered Apple to put in place, or even think about, this system. It is clearly a no-trivial project, no other

by siscia 5y ago

What I am missing from all this story, is what triggered Apple to put in place, or even think about, this system. It is clearly a no-trivial project, no other company is doing it, and it will be one of the rare case of a company doing something not for shareholders value but for "goodwill". I am really not understanding the reasoning behind this choice.

jeromegv 5y ago
One theory is that they are getting ready for E2E encryption of iCloud photos. Apple will have zero access to your photos in the cloud. So the only way to get the authorities to accept this new scheme is that there is this backdoor where there is a check client-side for sexual predator photos. Once your photo pass that check locally, it gets encrypted, sent to the cloud, never to be decrypted by apple. Not saying it will happen, but that's a decent theory as of why https://daringfireball.net/2021/08/apple_child_safety_initiatives_slippery_slope https://daringfireball.net/2021/08/apple_child_safety_initia...
MontagFTB 5y ago
Legally, I believe, they are responsible for distribution of CSAM that may wind up in their cloud, regardless of who put it there. Many cloud companies are under considerable legal pressure to find and report it.
spacedcowboy 5y ago
Er, every US company that hosts images in the cloud scans them for CSAM if they have access to the photo, otherwise they’re opening themselves up to a lawsuit. US law requires any ESP (electronic service provider) to alert NCMEC if they become aware of CSAM on their servers. Apple used to comply with this by scanning images on the server in iCloud photos, and now they’re moving that to the device if that image is about to be uploaded to iCloud photos. FWIW, the NYT says Apple reported 265 cases last year to NCMEC, and say Facebook reported 20.3 million. Google [1] are on for 365,319 for July->Dec. I’m still struggling to see what has changed here, apart from people realising what’s been happening.. - it’s the same algorithm that Apple has been using, comparing NCMEC-provided hashes against photos - it’s still only being done on photos that are uploaded to iCloud photos - it’s now done on-device rather than on-server, which removes a roadblock to future e2e encryption on the server. Seems the only real difference is perception. [1] https://transparencyreport.google.com/child-sexual-abuse-material/reporting?hl=en https://transparencyreport.google.com/child-sexual-abuse-mat...

by siscia 5y ago

jeromegv 5y ago

One theory is that they are getting ready for E2E encryption of iCloud photos. Apple will have zero access to your photos in the cloud. So the only way to get the authorities to accept this new scheme is that there is this backdoor where there is a check client-side for sexual predator photos. Once your photo pass that check locally, it gets encrypted, sent to the cloud, never to be decrypted by apple. Not saying it will happen, but that's a decent theory as of why https://daringfireball.net/2021/08/apple_child_safety_initiatives_slippery_slope https://daringfireball.net/2021/08/apple_child_safety_initia...

MontagFTB 5y ago

Legally, I believe, they are responsible for distribution of CSAM that may wind up in their cloud, regardless of who put it there. Many cloud companies are under considerable legal pressure to find and report it.

spacedcowboy 5y ago

Er, every US company that hosts images in the cloud scans them for CSAM if they have access to the photo, otherwise they’re opening themselves up to a lawsuit. US law requires any ESP (electronic service provider) to alert NCMEC if they become aware of CSAM on their servers. Apple used to comply with this by scanning images on the server in iCloud photos, and now they’re moving that to the device if that image is about to be uploaded to iCloud photos. FWIW, the NYT says Apple reported 265 cases last year to NCMEC, and say Facebook reported 20.3 million. Google [1] are on for 365,319 for July->Dec. I’m still struggling to see what has changed here, apart from people realising what’s been happening.. - it’s the same algorithm that Apple has been using, comparing NCMEC-provided hashes against photos - it’s still only being done on photos that are uploaded to iCloud photos - it’s now done on-device rather than on-server, which removes a roadblock to future e2e encryption on the server. Seems the only real difference is perception. [1] https://transparencyreport.google.com/child-sexual-abuse-material/reporting?hl=en https://transparencyreport.google.com/child-sexual-abuse-mat...