4 ms·

I think this is rather hyperbolic. Vast majority of people at Apple have nothing to do with this. And even people involved in this, I’m not sure how much I can

I think this is rather hyperbolic. Vast majority of people at Apple have nothing to do with this. And even people involved in this, I’m not sure how much I can blame them. Soldiers vs generals kind of argument. Also, they likely see the pedo-fighting side of things and think are in the right.

genocidicbunny 5y ago
If you work for Apple, you have provided a non-zero amount of support to them and their actions. Even if you're just the janitor that cleans the offices in the evening, you are providing material support. That gives you a non-zero liability for their actions. There are no generals without the soldiers. Yes, maybe for some of their employees its a choice between starving or working for Apple. I bet for the vast majority of Apples direct employees, they would be able to find another job to support them. And even for the ones that would starve, I'm sorry, but I put the well-being of the entirety of society and our collective future over their lives. If they go destitute or broke, the world will move on. If Apple gets their way..it might just not.
- arp242 5y ago
  > And even for the ones that would starve, I'm sorry, but I put the well-being of the entirety of society and our collective future over their lives. God, just listen to yourself. Personally I think their plans are fairly balanced and reasonable. Like it or not, there are legitimate interests here. It's a difficult trade-off and conversation. Ostracizing people and saying you would literally rather have people DIE is not adding to the conversation. The way you talk about it makes it sound like this is about the Nuremberg laws or something.
  - genocidicbunny 5y ago
    What makes you think I haven't listened to myself? And don't bring God into this, he's left the conversation a long long time ago; This shit's on us. I really couldn't care less if you think their plans are balanced or reasonable -- I don't agree with that on a fundamental level because Apple has long passed that threshold. This is just their latest digging a deeper hole. And why should I feel obligated to add to a conversation that has long gone nowhere? What can I add to it that wouldn't just get ignored anyways. I might as well inject my honest opinion, however much it'll be ignored.
    - arp242 5y ago
      This is not really much of a conversation if you don't care what other people have to say, is it? I don't really understand this almost visceral hate towards Apple. They do some things I like, and some things I don't like. This kind of stuff is not going to change anyone's mind, much less help them understand your position.
      - genocidicbunny 5y ago
        The visceral hate here is towards Apple because they are the current subject. Substitute any FAANG, or really, any company behaving similarly, and my reaction would be similar. Was it ever a conversation in the first place? I'm pretty sure that unless there's enough blow-back financially, Apple is going to do whatever it wants. This was never a conversation, it was a dictum from Apple that we're all reacting to. They're going to do whatever they thing will bring them the most profit. I am just following suit. I don't need others to understand my position, I don't need them to change their minds. I need them to acquiesce and do as necessary. This is what Apple dictates; so shall I.
        arp242 5y ago
        > Was it ever a conversation in the first place? [..] I don't need others to understand my position What do you think the point of Hacker News is?
        genocidicbunny 5y ago
        It certainly isn't to constrain one's expression of opinion to the well-trodded cliches and kowtows.
        borski 5y ago
        It also isn’t to bully people into agreeing with you, regardless of what valid or invalid arguments they may or may not have. I’d suggest reading the HN guidelines one more time: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

genocidicbunny 5y ago

If you work for Apple, you have provided a non-zero amount of support to them and their actions. Even if you're just the janitor that cleans the offices in the evening, you are providing material support. That gives you a non-zero liability for their actions. There are no generals without the soldiers. Yes, maybe for some of their employees its a choice between starving or working for Apple. I bet for the vast majority of Apples direct employees, they would be able to find another job to support them. And even for the ones that would starve, I'm sorry, but I put the well-being of the entirety of society and our collective future over their lives. If they go destitute or broke, the world will move on. If Apple gets their way..it might just not.

arp242 5y ago
> And even for the ones that would starve, I'm sorry, but I put the well-being of the entirety of society and our collective future over their lives. God, just listen to yourself. Personally I think their plans are fairly balanced and reasonable. Like it or not, there are legitimate interests here. It's a difficult trade-off and conversation. Ostracizing people and saying you would literally rather have people DIE is not adding to the conversation. The way you talk about it makes it sound like this is about the Nuremberg laws or something.
- genocidicbunny 5y ago
  What makes you think I haven't listened to myself? And don't bring God into this, he's left the conversation a long long time ago; This shit's on us. I really couldn't care less if you think their plans are balanced or reasonable -- I don't agree with that on a fundamental level because Apple has long passed that threshold. This is just their latest digging a deeper hole. And why should I feel obligated to add to a conversation that has long gone nowhere? What can I add to it that wouldn't just get ignored anyways. I might as well inject my honest opinion, however much it'll be ignored.
  - arp242 5y ago
    This is not really much of a conversation if you don't care what other people have to say, is it? I don't really understand this almost visceral hate towards Apple. They do some things I like, and some things I don't like. This kind of stuff is not going to change anyone's mind, much less help them understand your position.
    - genocidicbunny 5y ago
      The visceral hate here is towards Apple because they are the current subject. Substitute any FAANG, or really, any company behaving similarly, and my reaction would be similar. Was it ever a conversation in the first place? I'm pretty sure that unless there's enough blow-back financially, Apple is going to do whatever it wants. This was never a conversation, it was a dictum from Apple that we're all reacting to. They're going to do whatever they thing will bring them the most profit. I am just following suit. I don't need others to understand my position, I don't need them to change their minds. I need them to acquiesce and do as necessary. This is what Apple dictates; so shall I.
      - arp242 5y ago
        > Was it ever a conversation in the first place? [..] I don't need others to understand my position What do you think the point of Hacker News is?
        genocidicbunny 5y ago
        It certainly isn't to constrain one's expression of opinion to the well-trodded cliches and kowtows.
        borski 5y ago
        It also isn’t to bully people into agreeing with you, regardless of what valid or invalid arguments they may or may not have. I’d suggest reading the HN guidelines one more time: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html