10 ms·

Open-source intelligence challenges state monopolies on information

202 points by helsinkiandrew 5y ago

mdp2021 5y ago
I would like to notify the interested about this interview from Jeremy Paxman to Eliot Higgins of Bellingcat, dated 3 Mar 2021 https://play.acast.com/s/paxman/eliothiggins-bellingcat- https://play.acast.com/s/paxman/eliothiggins-bellingcat-
nathan_phoenix 5y ago
https://archive.is/glZCA https://archive.is/glZCA
gpcr1949 5y ago
Open-source intelligence challenges state monopolies on information - except, in some cases it doesn't. To take the example of Bellingcat/Higgins, their site definitely has a certain political orientation that usually tends to align with NATO interests, for example when it comes to Syria or various Russian operations. Several of their employees have backgrounds in intelligence/military (Kaszeta, Biggers), some of their funding comes from state-linked sources (Such as the NED[0]). I also recall reading some Bellingcat article where the information was not open source, relying on some leaked database of russian passports instead [1], which is fair enough as journalism, but not open source. I'm not saying the conclusions of Bellingcat et al are necessarily wrong (though personally i take some of what they are writing with a grain of salt), but I would doubt that open source intelligence groups are necessarily that anti systemic or a challenge to state directed information flows and embargos. Finally, here is a fairly interesting article with a critical view of the Bellingcat group [2], though the source, Mintpress, is quite biased so critical reading is advised. [0] https://www.bellingcat.com/about/ https://www.bellingcat.com/about/ [1] https://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-and-europe/2018/10/09/full-report-skripal-poisoning-suspect-dr-alexander-mishkin-hero-russia/ https://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-and-europe/2018/10/09/ful... [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26772184 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26772184
- mhh__ 5y ago
  Personally I've never really been under the impression that bellingcat were strictly neutral, I mostly buy that they get tipped off and then rejustify the story using OSINT sometimes, but let's not forget that they have published information which is embarrassing to the US. See the recent story on procedures on nuclear bases leaking from flashcard apps for example.
  - mandmandam 5y ago
    > they have published information which is embarrassing to the US Any examples that doesn't directly attack fossil fuel competitors?
    - HDMI_Cable 5y ago
      > Any examples that doesn't directly attack fossil fuel competitors? No offence, but that is moving the goalposts a bit; information critical of the US is still critical of the US.
    - mhh__ 5y ago
      Nuclear bombs not reactors
- bishoprook2 5y ago
  > their site definitely has a certain political orientation that usually tends to align with NATO interests, It seems to me that if a site presents any threat to the ruling class, you simply see your Paypal access disappear, VISA accounts go away, hosting goes away, ability to make a public case via FB/Twitter/etc. goes down the memory hole, 'kept' reporters attack you, MSM mobs you, so I'm not surprised. The last half decade has made the real game as plain as day.
- mdp2021 5y ago
  Pluralism of investigation may be preferable (to the public) to monopoly of investigation. The matter is still part of the problem of the crisis in journalism - the difficulties of financing in new market models, and the ease of compromises with powers, hinder investigative journalism. Even recognition of its core mandate as a value is in crisis.
beardyw 5y ago
Just finished reading Eliot Higgins’ Becoming Bellingcat last night. He stresses how important it is to archive sources because, as we know, stuff online is here today gone tomorrow. Sometimes literally apparently. International repercussions over stuff like this take years to run their course.
- ncphil 5y ago
  A good argument for donating to archive.org, which is undeniably a global treasure at this point. We definitely need more repositories of open source intelligence, if only so we can tell when operators like Bellingcat are trying to play us. And yeah, Greenwald has stood out with a very few others in challenging official propaganda from both government and private interests. Believe it or not, there are those out there who think he hasn't done enough across a broader front. But that's probably unfair: we're talking just a few conscientious reporters versus an veritable army of high priced shills in shiny suits.
- beardyw 5y ago
  Late correction - book was We Are Bellingcat
stefantalpalaru 5y ago
«Reuters, BBC, and Bellingcat participated in covert UK Foreign Office-funded programs to “weaken Russia,” leaked docs reveal» - https://thegrayzone.com/2021/02/20/reuters-bbc-uk-foreign-office-russian-media/ https://thegrayzone.com/2021/02/20/reuters-bbc-uk-foreign-of...
gatvol 5y ago
Seems the article itself is an attempt to lend Bellingcat et al some credibility
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
splittingTimes 5y ago
Anybody interested in open source intelligence, I can wholeheartedly recommend "Open-Source Everything Manifesto" [1]. Do not be mislead by the title. Open-source here is all-encompassing, not only software. === [1] https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Robert-David-Steele/dp/1583944435 https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Robert-David-Steele/dp/1583944435
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

mdp2021 5y ago

I would like to notify the interested about this interview from Jeremy Paxman to Eliot Higgins of Bellingcat, dated 3 Mar 2021 https://play.acast.com/s/paxman/eliothiggins-bellingcat- https://play.acast.com/s/paxman/eliothiggins-bellingcat-

nathan_phoenix 5y ago

https://archive.is/glZCA https://archive.is/glZCA

gpcr1949 5y ago

Open-source intelligence challenges state monopolies on information - except, in some cases it doesn't. To take the example of Bellingcat/Higgins, their site definitely has a certain political orientation that usually tends to align with NATO interests, for example when it comes to Syria or various Russian operations. Several of their employees have backgrounds in intelligence/military (Kaszeta, Biggers), some of their funding comes from state-linked sources (Such as the NED[0]). I also recall reading some Bellingcat article where the information was not open source, relying on some leaked database of russian passports instead [1], which is fair enough as journalism, but not open source. I'm not saying the conclusions of Bellingcat et al are necessarily wrong (though personally i take some of what they are writing with a grain of salt), but I would doubt that open source intelligence groups are necessarily that anti systemic or a challenge to state directed information flows and embargos. Finally, here is a fairly interesting article with a critical view of the Bellingcat group [2], though the source, Mintpress, is quite biased so critical reading is advised. [0] https://www.bellingcat.com/about/ https://www.bellingcat.com/about/ [1] https://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-and-europe/2018/10/09/full-report-skripal-poisoning-suspect-dr-alexander-mishkin-hero-russia/ https://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-and-europe/2018/10/09/ful... [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26772184 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26772184

mhh__ 5y ago
Personally I've never really been under the impression that bellingcat were strictly neutral, I mostly buy that they get tipped off and then rejustify the story using OSINT sometimes, but let's not forget that they have published information which is embarrassing to the US. See the recent story on procedures on nuclear bases leaking from flashcard apps for example.
- mandmandam 5y ago
  > they have published information which is embarrassing to the US Any examples that doesn't directly attack fossil fuel competitors?
  - HDMI_Cable 5y ago
    > Any examples that doesn't directly attack fossil fuel competitors? No offence, but that is moving the goalposts a bit; information critical of the US is still critical of the US.
  - mhh__ 5y ago
    Nuclear bombs not reactors
bishoprook2 5y ago
> their site definitely has a certain political orientation that usually tends to align with NATO interests, It seems to me that if a site presents any threat to the ruling class, you simply see your Paypal access disappear, VISA accounts go away, hosting goes away, ability to make a public case via FB/Twitter/etc. goes down the memory hole, 'kept' reporters attack you, MSM mobs you, so I'm not surprised. The last half decade has made the real game as plain as day.
mdp2021 5y ago
Pluralism of investigation may be preferable (to the public) to monopoly of investigation. The matter is still part of the problem of the crisis in journalism - the difficulties of financing in new market models, and the ease of compromises with powers, hinder investigative journalism. Even recognition of its core mandate as a value is in crisis.

beardyw 5y ago

Just finished reading Eliot Higgins’ Becoming Bellingcat last night. He stresses how important it is to archive sources because, as we know, stuff online is here today gone tomorrow. Sometimes literally apparently. International repercussions over stuff like this take years to run their course.

ncphil 5y ago
A good argument for donating to archive.org, which is undeniably a global treasure at this point. We definitely need more repositories of open source intelligence, if only so we can tell when operators like Bellingcat are trying to play us. And yeah, Greenwald has stood out with a very few others in challenging official propaganda from both government and private interests. Believe it or not, there are those out there who think he hasn't done enough across a broader front. But that's probably unfair: we're talking just a few conscientious reporters versus an veritable army of high priced shills in shiny suits.
beardyw 5y ago
Late correction - book was We Are Bellingcat

stefantalpalaru 5y ago

«Reuters, BBC, and Bellingcat participated in covert UK Foreign Office-funded programs to “weaken Russia,” leaked docs reveal» - https://thegrayzone.com/2021/02/20/reuters-bbc-uk-foreign-office-russian-media/ https://thegrayzone.com/2021/02/20/reuters-bbc-uk-foreign-of...

gatvol 5y ago

Seems the article itself is an attempt to lend Bellingcat et al some credibility

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

splittingTimes 5y ago

Anybody interested in open source intelligence, I can wholeheartedly recommend "Open-Source Everything Manifesto" [1]. Do not be mislead by the title. Open-source here is all-encompassing, not only software. === [1] https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Robert-David-Steele/dp/1583944435 https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Robert-David-Steele/dp/1583944435

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]