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Do you know how discovery works in court? I'm guessing not. Once a hash matches, law enforcement would need a subpoena to access the raw image. If a person wer
by midev 5y ago
Do you know how discovery works in court? I'm guessing not.
Once a hash matches, law enforcement would need a subpoena to access the raw image. If a person were to be arrested, that evidence would be turned over to the defense.
It would be very obvious that a picture of a police officer was not child pornography.
Are you under the impression people are jailed for hash collisions? Because that's not the case at all....
- eurasiantiger 5y agoHave you heard of the chilling effect?
- midev 5y agoYeah, which is irrelevant to the discussion. This thread is about photos of law enforcement and politicians used to convict people on CP charges. Let's stick to the topic of discovery and how courts work.
- eurasiantiger 5y agoLet’s conveniently ignore all the facts that speak against the planned dystopia, and focus on the positives of having all facets of your life constrained and controlled by authorities.
- midev 5y agoI'm happy to have that discussion, I think it's critical and we need to update laws to protect privacy. You still don't get to be technically incorrect, though. You still need to know how courts work, if you want to participate in that discussion.
- eurasiantiger 5y agoYou have a lot of trust in your courts. Let’s hope it is not misplaced.
- bryanrasmussen 5y agoI don't think the suggestion is that a hash of a police uniform will be used to convict of CP but rather the idea that a new law will be passed that - in order to protect the police from 'harassment' - will outlaw taking pictures of the police. So in that case in discovery the picture of a police officer would be evidence that you broke that hypothetical law. The technology deployed to protect the children opens up the possibility of its deployment for other things later, based on legal requirements of course. For example don't take pictures of copyrighted material would be something people might want to work on.
- midev 5y ago> would be evidence that you broke that hypothetical law Hypothetical situations are not an argument to real world discussions. Sure, if that happened, it'd be terrible. But, that's not happening....
- ratsnake 5y agoIt's not hypothetical https://reason.com/2021/07/27/florida-bill-criminalize-filming-cops-first-amendment/ https://reason.com/2021/07/27/florida-bill-criminalize-filmi...
- Osiris 5y agoI think asking ourselves if this is a slippery slope is a valid part of discussing what's actually happening right now.
- midev 5y agoAppealing to the slippery slope is itself a fallacy. "While this image may be insightful for understanding the character of the fallacy, it represents a misunderstanding of the nature of the causal relations between events. Every causal claim requires a separate argument. Hence, any "slipping" to be found is only in the clumsy thinking of the arguer, who has failed to provide sufficient evidence that one causally explained event can serve as an explanation for another event or for a series of events" You need to argue things that are actually happening. Appealing to hypotheticals, especially when technically incorrect, serves no one.
- toast0 5y ago> Once a hash matches, law enforcement would need a subpoena to access the raw image. Not if Apple provides it to them without a subpoena.
- soperj 5y agoIt's like you think everyone operates under US law, or don't give a shit about anyone who doesn't.
- rswail 5y agoI understand your argument, that a court (in a democratic country with a rule of law) would expect that the investigators extract the original image from the accused's phone with the appropriate chain of custody of the evidence. However, that does not mean that while this investigation is under way, the accused is now go about their business. For CP, or other crimes of violence, that makes sense. But if laws are passed against peaceful protest, then that means someone could be held in detention while those photos are investigated. An anonymous photo now is trackable.