4 ms·

They make the premise so innocuous that it would seem unreasonable to object, eg who would object to keeping kids safe? However it's what comes after this, the

They make the premise so innocuous that it would seem unreasonable to object, eg who would object to keeping kids safe? However it's what comes after this, the slippery slope of what to enforce and not. The genie doesn't go back in the bottle.

sharken 5y ago
Exactly. It's the same argument when Corona contact-tracing was discussed and later implemented. First using paper forms and later using apps. Why would you object to limiting the spread of the Coronavirus ? Fast forward to the present where law enforcement in Germany, Australia and Singapore have used contact-tracing for other purposes. So no to this plan from Apple, they must discard all plans of client-side scanning and instead increase their privacy stance.
- mung 5y ago
  Could you please expand on the other uses of contact tracing in those countries?
  - sharken 5y ago
    This is a compilation of what others have posted: - Germany https://www.golem.de/news/hamburg-polizei-nutzt-corona-kontaktlisten-nach-straftat-2007-149482.html https://www.golem.de/news/hamburg-polizei-nutzt-corona-konta... https://www.ccc.de/de/updates/2021/luca-app-ccc-fordert-bundesnotbremse https://www.ccc.de/de/updates/2021/luca-app-ccc-fordert-bund... - Australia Australia, WA, check-in data: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-15/safewa-app-sparks-urgent-law-change-after-police-access-data/100201340 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-15/safewa-app-sparks-urg... Australia, WA, border pass data: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-17/g2g-app-data-accessed-for-investigations-as-well-wa-police-admit/100222804 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-17/g2g-app-data-accessed... Australia, VIC, check-in data: https://www.theage.com.au/politics/victoria/police-sought-access-to-qr-check-in-data-intended-for-contact-tracing-20210621-p582x4.html https://www.theage.com.au/politics/victoria/police-sought-ac... Australia, QLD, check-in data: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-29/queensland-coronavirus-check-in-app-police-data-search/100249624 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-29/queensland-coronaviru... - Singapore https://fortune.com/2021/02/01/singapore-covid-data-tracetogether-use-law-criminal/ https://fortune.com/2021/02/01/singapore-covid-data-tracetog... https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/politics/police-can-access-tracetogether-data-only-through-person-involved-in-criminal https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/politics/police-can-a... https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/proposed-restrictions-to-safeguard-personal-contact-tracing-data-will-override-all-other https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/proposed-restrictions... https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/politics/bill-limiting-use-of-tracetogether-for-serious-crimes-passed-with-govt-assurances https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/politics/bill-limitin...
    - mung 5y ago
      Thank you, that was very thorough and enlightening.
- xdennis 5y ago
  > Fast forward to the present where law enforcement in Germany, Australia and Singapore have used contact-tracing for other purposes. I don't understand how people were so naive to install those applications. I did the exact opposite: whipped my phone and bought two cheap ones so I can separate my calling phone (which I leave home), from my media phone (no connections), and my GPS phone (no connections aside from GPS and turned off most of the time).

sharken 5y ago

Exactly. It's the same argument when Corona contact-tracing was discussed and later implemented. First using paper forms and later using apps. Why would you object to limiting the spread of the Coronavirus ? Fast forward to the present where law enforcement in Germany, Australia and Singapore have used contact-tracing for other purposes. So no to this plan from Apple, they must discard all plans of client-side scanning and instead increase their privacy stance.

mung 5y ago
Could you please expand on the other uses of contact tracing in those countries?
- sharken 5y ago
  This is a compilation of what others have posted: - Germany https://www.golem.de/news/hamburg-polizei-nutzt-corona-kontaktlisten-nach-straftat-2007-149482.html https://www.golem.de/news/hamburg-polizei-nutzt-corona-konta... https://www.ccc.de/de/updates/2021/luca-app-ccc-fordert-bundesnotbremse https://www.ccc.de/de/updates/2021/luca-app-ccc-fordert-bund... - Australia Australia, WA, check-in data: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-15/safewa-app-sparks-urgent-law-change-after-police-access-data/100201340 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-15/safewa-app-sparks-urg... Australia, WA, border pass data: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-17/g2g-app-data-accessed-for-investigations-as-well-wa-police-admit/100222804 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-17/g2g-app-data-accessed... Australia, VIC, check-in data: https://www.theage.com.au/politics/victoria/police-sought-access-to-qr-check-in-data-intended-for-contact-tracing-20210621-p582x4.html https://www.theage.com.au/politics/victoria/police-sought-ac... Australia, QLD, check-in data: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-29/queensland-coronavirus-check-in-app-police-data-search/100249624 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-29/queensland-coronaviru... - Singapore https://fortune.com/2021/02/01/singapore-covid-data-tracetogether-use-law-criminal/ https://fortune.com/2021/02/01/singapore-covid-data-tracetog... https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/politics/police-can-access-tracetogether-data-only-through-person-involved-in-criminal https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/politics/police-can-a... https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/proposed-restrictions-to-safeguard-personal-contact-tracing-data-will-override-all-other https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/proposed-restrictions... https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/politics/bill-limiting-use-of-tracetogether-for-serious-crimes-passed-with-govt-assurances https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/politics/bill-limitin...
  - mung 5y ago
    Thank you, that was very thorough and enlightening.
xdennis 5y ago
> Fast forward to the present where law enforcement in Germany, Australia and Singapore have used contact-tracing for other purposes. I don't understand how people were so naive to install those applications. I did the exact opposite: whipped my phone and bought two cheap ones so I can separate my calling phone (which I leave home), from my media phone (no connections), and my GPS phone (no connections aside from GPS and turned off most of the time).