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> Sure, I am quite willing to hang you with your own words. That isn’t what you’ve done. “As far as I can see: 1. This is a serious attempt to build a privacy

by zepto 5y ago

> Sure, I am quite willing to hang you with your own words. That isn’t what you’ve done. “As far as I can see: 1. This is a serious attempt to build a privacy preserving solution to child pornography.” - False as you even argued I don’t argue that. >> They are not in this to make arrests. They just want parents to feel safe letting children use their products. Driving predators to use different tools is fine with them.” > So according to your very own words, Erm.. > this ISN’T a serious attempt to build a privacy supporting solution to child pornography. These are your words, not what you quoted of mine. It’s absolutely a solution to the problem of child porn on their platform. They care about making it safe for their users. Who is expecting Apple to solve the problem beyond that? > It is at best something to keep the FBI at bay These are your words, not something I have said. > even though as you say it also introduces a back door. Where do I say it introduces a back door? > “2. The complaints are all slippery slope arguments that governments will force Apple to abuse the mechanism. These are clearly real concerns and even Tim Cook admits that if you build a back door, bad people will use it.” > False, these are not slippery slope arguments It is your opinion that they are not slippery slope arguments. I think they are, and as you have quoted I think they are reasonable. Slippery slope arguments are fallacies in the sense that the conclusions don’t logically follow, but that doesn’t mean that they are always wrong. You haven’t hung me with anything - you’ve just voiced some misrepresentations of your own interleaved with quotes of me.

babesh 5y ago
Resplendent. I won’t even add my own words. I will let you speak for yourself. ““ As far as I can see: 1. This is a serious attempt to build a privacy preserving solution to child pornography.” I don’t argue that.”” “ Apple’s solution is the best on offer. ” “ I think this is exactly what Apple wants to he the result of their their iMessage scanning. They are not in this to make arrests. They just want parents to feel safe letting children use their products. Driving predators to use different tools is fine with them.” “2. The complaints are all slippery slope arguments that governments will force Apple to abuse the mechanism. These are clearly real concerns and even Tim Cook admits that if you build a back door, bad people will use it.” “So: where are the proposals for a better solution?” Let the viewer decide. Are you going to argue that I have misrepresented your words? Feel free to argue with yourself.
- zepto 5y ago
  It looks like you’ve copied and pasted some quotes from my comments into a jumble. There is nothing to ‘hang’ anyone with. Just a series of quotes taken out of context which even then don’t look particularly nefarious. Remind us again what you’re trying to prove with this?
- babesh 5y ago
  Zepto complained that it was out of context. Here are entire comments. “ As far as I can see: 1. This is a serious attempt to build a privacy preserving solution to child pornography. 2. The complaints are all slippery slope arguments that governments will force Apple to abuse the mechanism. These are clearly real concerns and even Tim Cook admits that if you build a back door, bad people will use it. However: Child pornography and the related abuse is widely thought of as a massive problem, that is facilitated by encrypted communication and digital photography. People do care about this issue. ‘Think of the children’ is a great pretext for increasing surveillance, because it isn’t an irrational fear. So: where are the proposals for a better solution? I see here people who themselves are afraid of the real consequences of government/corporate surveillance, and whose fear prevents them from empathizing with the people who are afraid of the equally real consequences of organized child sexual exploitation. ‘My fear is more important than your fear’, is the root of ordinary political polarization. What would be a hacker alternative would be to come up with a technical solution that solves for both fears at the same time. This is what Apple has attempted, but the wisdom here is that they have failed. Can anyone propose anything better, or are we stuck with just politics as usual? Edit: added ‘widely thought of as’ to make it clear that I am referring to a widely held position, not that I am arguing for it.” > The more sophisticated child molesters out there will find out about what Apple is doing and quickly avoid it. I think this is exactly what Apple wants to he the result of their their iMessage scanning. They are not in this to make arrests. They just want parents to feel safe letting children use their products. Driving predators to use different tools is fine with them. As far as the FBI goes, this is presumably not their preference, but it’s still good for them if it makes predation a little harder.
  - zepto 5y ago
    Still out of context - they are replies to things you wrote. You have left out your side of the conversation for some reason. How does that help? Did you know they can still be seen exactly as I wrote them in the thread, where anyone can make sense of them, and see what I was replying to? Remind us what this copy and paste behavior is meant to prove?

by zepto 5y ago

babesh 5y ago

Resplendent. I won’t even add my own words. I will let you speak for yourself. ““ As far as I can see: 1. This is a serious attempt to build a privacy preserving solution to child pornography.” I don’t argue that.”” “ Apple’s solution is the best on offer. ” “ I think this is exactly what Apple wants to he the result of their their iMessage scanning. They are not in this to make arrests. They just want parents to feel safe letting children use their products. Driving predators to use different tools is fine with them.” “2. The complaints are all slippery slope arguments that governments will force Apple to abuse the mechanism. These are clearly real concerns and even Tim Cook admits that if you build a back door, bad people will use it.” “So: where are the proposals for a better solution?” Let the viewer decide. Are you going to argue that I have misrepresented your words? Feel free to argue with yourself.

zepto 5y ago
It looks like you’ve copied and pasted some quotes from my comments into a jumble. There is nothing to ‘hang’ anyone with. Just a series of quotes taken out of context which even then don’t look particularly nefarious. Remind us again what you’re trying to prove with this?
babesh 5y ago
Zepto complained that it was out of context. Here are entire comments. “ As far as I can see: 1. This is a serious attempt to build a privacy preserving solution to child pornography. 2. The complaints are all slippery slope arguments that governments will force Apple to abuse the mechanism. These are clearly real concerns and even Tim Cook admits that if you build a back door, bad people will use it. However: Child pornography and the related abuse is widely thought of as a massive problem, that is facilitated by encrypted communication and digital photography. People do care about this issue. ‘Think of the children’ is a great pretext for increasing surveillance, because it isn’t an irrational fear. So: where are the proposals for a better solution? I see here people who themselves are afraid of the real consequences of government/corporate surveillance, and whose fear prevents them from empathizing with the people who are afraid of the equally real consequences of organized child sexual exploitation. ‘My fear is more important than your fear’, is the root of ordinary political polarization. What would be a hacker alternative would be to come up with a technical solution that solves for both fears at the same time. This is what Apple has attempted, but the wisdom here is that they have failed. Can anyone propose anything better, or are we stuck with just politics as usual? Edit: added ‘widely thought of as’ to make it clear that I am referring to a widely held position, not that I am arguing for it.” > The more sophisticated child molesters out there will find out about what Apple is doing and quickly avoid it. I think this is exactly what Apple wants to he the result of their their iMessage scanning. They are not in this to make arrests. They just want parents to feel safe letting children use their products. Driving predators to use different tools is fine with them. As far as the FBI goes, this is presumably not their preference, but it’s still good for them if it makes predation a little harder.
- zepto 5y ago
  Still out of context - they are replies to things you wrote. You have left out your side of the conversation for some reason. How does that help? Did you know they can still be seen exactly as I wrote them in the thread, where anyone can make sense of them, and see what I was replying to? Remind us what this copy and paste behavior is meant to prove?