4 ms·

Being specific with the arguments and addressing the nuance matters imo. Most of the HN responses are dumb, get the details wrong, and don’t take the trade off

Being specific with the arguments and addressing the nuance matters imo. Most of the HN responses are dumb, get the details wrong, and don’t take the trade offs seriously. That kind of thing causes me to dismiss them entirely. There are legitimate arguments and risks which I’d concede, but they’re not what most people in the comments are talking about.

ctvo 5y ago
The trade-off here is to get pedophiles off of Apple services and on to something else, we give Apple an entry point into examining our private data. I understand it's hashes now, that does nothing to prevent this from expanding. "People just don't understand!!" has never been a convincing argument.
- fossuser 5y ago
  This is just a slippery slope argument. The implementation specifically for detecting CSAM can be okay while using that for other purposes can not be okay. The goal is to stop child sexual abuse, FB reports millions of cases a year with a similar hash matching model for messenger. > ""People just don't understand!!" has never been a convincing argument." That's not my argument - I just think most of the HN comments on this issue both miss the relevant details, and are wrong.
  - ErikVandeWater 5y ago
    Slippery slope fallacy is often implied incorrectly when it comes to people. Human nature is subject to the "foot in the door" sales tactic. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foot-in-the-door_technique https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foot-in-the-door_technique
- DSingularity 5y ago
  I think HN takes the incorrectly perceived moral high ground and ignore the fact that there is a real duty to act here. There are people who profit from CSAM and in turn this creates a market for abuse. Unless we create structures which disincentivizes these behaviors — right now there are none - they will continue to grow. What Apple is building will basically make any criminal who sells to someone sloppy enough to store in iCloud risk being traced as the origin of the CSAM. Back to the darkest web they go. Anti CSAM is inevitable. You will find similar systems for all major providers eventually.
  - aj3 5y ago
    I'm pretty sure child abuse is a criminal offense everywhere. That's quite a disincentive.

ctvo 5y ago

The trade-off here is to get pedophiles off of Apple services and on to something else, we give Apple an entry point into examining our private data. I understand it's hashes now, that does nothing to prevent this from expanding. "People just don't understand!!" has never been a convincing argument.

fossuser 5y ago
This is just a slippery slope argument. The implementation specifically for detecting CSAM can be okay while using that for other purposes can not be okay. The goal is to stop child sexual abuse, FB reports millions of cases a year with a similar hash matching model for messenger. > ""People just don't understand!!" has never been a convincing argument." That's not my argument - I just think most of the HN comments on this issue both miss the relevant details, and are wrong.
- ErikVandeWater 5y ago
  Slippery slope fallacy is often implied incorrectly when it comes to people. Human nature is subject to the "foot in the door" sales tactic. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foot-in-the-door_technique https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foot-in-the-door_technique
DSingularity 5y ago
I think HN takes the incorrectly perceived moral high ground and ignore the fact that there is a real duty to act here. There are people who profit from CSAM and in turn this creates a market for abuse. Unless we create structures which disincentivizes these behaviors — right now there are none - they will continue to grow. What Apple is building will basically make any criminal who sells to someone sloppy enough to store in iCloud risk being traced as the origin of the CSAM. Back to the darkest web they go. Anti CSAM is inevitable. You will find similar systems for all major providers eventually.
- aj3 5y ago
  I'm pretty sure child abuse is a criminal offense everywhere. That's quite a disincentive.