4 ms·

In my experience the percentage of homeless that have serious addiction issue (alcohol, meth or heroin) approaches 100%

heavyset_go 5y ago
In the US, the majority of homeless people are homeless for economic reasons[1], and not because of mental illness or addiction. [1] https://nlchp.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/Homeless_Stats_Fact_Sheet.pdf https://nlchp.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/Homeless_Stats_...
- gruez 5y ago
  Your document doesn't really support your claim. >at least 2.5 to 3.5 million Americans sleep in shelters, transitional housing, and public places not meant for human habitation [...] At least an additional 7.4 million have lost their own homes and are doubled-up with others due to economic necessity In other words, if we expand the definition of homeless to include people who are living with others "due to economic necessity", then most of the "homeless" are homeless for economic reasons. That's not exactly the same as "most people who are conventionally homeless (for a lack of a better term) are homeless for economic reasons". When you say "homeless", most people think of "sleeping on the streets", not "crashing at a friends house".
  - nobody9999 5y ago
    >In other words, if we expand the definition of homeless to include people who are living with others "due to economic necessity", then most of the "homeless" are homeless for economic reasons. That's not exactly the same as "most people who are conventionally homeless (for a lack of a better term) are homeless for economic reasons". When you say "homeless", most people think of "sleeping on the streets", not "crashing at a friends house". That seems to be a distinction without a difference, IMHO. If you have friends who will let you crash on their couch, does that make you less homeless than if you don't have any friends? Or at least none that will let you crash on their couch? The vast majority of homeless people wouldn't be homeless if they could afford to rent/buy housing. That sounds like economic reasons to me. Or am I missing something?
    - gruez 5y ago
      > Or am I missing something? You seemed to have missed the point of my comment. I'm not advocating for/against whether "homeless" should count people who are living with others due to economic necessity. I'm pointing out that heavyset_go's definition of "homeless" likely differs drastically than the one used by honksillet, and that him sneakily changing the definition to make a counterclaim is misleading at best.
      - nobody9999 5y ago
        And you seem to have missed the point of mine. Which was that the "definitions" of homelessness you're comparing aren't really relevant to whether or not homelessness is primarily an economic issue. I'd add that nitpicking about those definitions doesn't add anything to the discussion, nor does it elucidate anything useful or interesting IMHO. It's pretty clear that the vast majority of homelessness, however you might reasonably define it, is related to economic hardship and insecurity.
DoreenMichele 5y ago
I spent nearly six years homeless. I have never used meth or heroin and I don't typically drink alcohol. I'm not an addict. I never have been.
- gunshai 5y ago
  You are the perfect person I want to have a conversation with. Assuming we are operating under a similar definition of homelessness which people find to be a problem, IE dispersed living on public property within city limits. How did this happen? What became a barrier for work mainly? Skills, network ? Did you find groups of other homeless similar to yourself or did you isolate yourself.
  - DoreenMichele 5y ago
    You might be interested in some of my blogs: https://streetlifesolutions.blogspot.com/ https://streetlifesolutions.blogspot.com/ https://sandiegohomelesssurvivalguide.blogspot.com/ https://sandiegohomelesssurvivalguide.blogspot.com/ http://whathelpsthehomeless.blogspot.com/ http://whathelpsthehomeless.blogspot.com/
  - nate_meurer 5y ago
    In addition to the links she gave, you can look back at her HN comments. Lots of good stuff here.
  - nobody9999 5y ago
    >How did this happen? What became a barrier for work mainly? Skills, network ? Did you find groups of other homeless similar to yourself or did you isolate yourself. Not GP, but the biggest barrier to work I had was not having a regular place to shower or keep clean clothes. For some strange reason, employers don't like it if you're unbathed and in dirty clothes. I was never able to figure out why. Perhaps you could opine on that?
    - gunshai 5y ago
      Sarcasm aside, I do remember reading and talking to formally homeless folks saying that they would commonly have gym memberships for this very reason. Second to that at least in the city I live in, many barbershops and dry cleaners offer free service to homeless who are going to be interviewed.
zarzavat 5y ago
People can be homeless without living on the street. Homeless doesn't necessarily mean shelterless, it means you don't have a home.
quickthrower2 5y ago
What experience is that? Handing out food to homeless people a while back about 1 of the 20 was drunk and the rest sober and lucid. One had given up heroin.
nate_meurer 5y ago
Not according to the National Coalition for the Homeless: > The Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration (2003) estimates, 38% of homeless people were dependent on alcohol and 26% abused other drugs. https://nationalhomeless.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Substance-Abuse-and-Homelessness.pdf https://nationalhomeless.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Subs...
- nobody9999 5y ago
  >> The Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration (2003) estimates, 38% of homeless people were dependent on alcohol and 26% abused other drugs. Actually, more recent data[0] shows that 36% of chronically homeless people have drug dependency/mental health issues. And since only ~20% of the homeless are chronically homeless, that's less than ten percent of the homeless population. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27953080 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27953080
Lammy 5y ago
Drugs are escapism. Nobody wants to be addicted to booze or meth or heroin if they were otherwise happy with their life. The same factors lead to addition and homelessness.
wbsss4412 5y ago
Is anecdotal evidence is a solid basis for public policy?

In the US, the majority of homeless people are homeless for economic reasons[1], and not because of mental illness or addiction. [1] https://nlchp.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/Homeless_Stats_Fact_Sheet.pdf https://nlchp.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/Homeless_Stats_...

gruez 5y ago
Your document doesn't really support your claim. >at least 2.5 to 3.5 million Americans sleep in shelters, transitional housing, and public places not meant for human habitation [...] At least an additional 7.4 million have lost their own homes and are doubled-up with others due to economic necessity In other words, if we expand the definition of homeless to include people who are living with others "due to economic necessity", then most of the "homeless" are homeless for economic reasons. That's not exactly the same as "most people who are conventionally homeless (for a lack of a better term) are homeless for economic reasons". When you say "homeless", most people think of "sleeping on the streets", not "crashing at a friends house".
- nobody9999 5y ago
  >In other words, if we expand the definition of homeless to include people who are living with others "due to economic necessity", then most of the "homeless" are homeless for economic reasons. That's not exactly the same as "most people who are conventionally homeless (for a lack of a better term) are homeless for economic reasons". When you say "homeless", most people think of "sleeping on the streets", not "crashing at a friends house". That seems to be a distinction without a difference, IMHO. If you have friends who will let you crash on their couch, does that make you less homeless than if you don't have any friends? Or at least none that will let you crash on their couch? The vast majority of homeless people wouldn't be homeless if they could afford to rent/buy housing. That sounds like economic reasons to me. Or am I missing something?
  - gruez 5y ago
    > Or am I missing something? You seemed to have missed the point of my comment. I'm not advocating for/against whether "homeless" should count people who are living with others due to economic necessity. I'm pointing out that heavyset_go's definition of "homeless" likely differs drastically than the one used by honksillet, and that him sneakily changing the definition to make a counterclaim is misleading at best.
    - nobody9999 5y ago
      And you seem to have missed the point of mine. Which was that the "definitions" of homelessness you're comparing aren't really relevant to whether or not homelessness is primarily an economic issue. I'd add that nitpicking about those definitions doesn't add anything to the discussion, nor does it elucidate anything useful or interesting IMHO. It's pretty clear that the vast majority of homelessness, however you might reasonably define it, is related to economic hardship and insecurity.

DoreenMichele 5y ago

I spent nearly six years homeless. I have never used meth or heroin and I don't typically drink alcohol. I'm not an addict. I never have been.

gunshai 5y ago
You are the perfect person I want to have a conversation with. Assuming we are operating under a similar definition of homelessness which people find to be a problem, IE dispersed living on public property within city limits. How did this happen? What became a barrier for work mainly? Skills, network ? Did you find groups of other homeless similar to yourself or did you isolate yourself.
- DoreenMichele 5y ago
  You might be interested in some of my blogs: https://streetlifesolutions.blogspot.com/ https://streetlifesolutions.blogspot.com/ https://sandiegohomelesssurvivalguide.blogspot.com/ https://sandiegohomelesssurvivalguide.blogspot.com/ http://whathelpsthehomeless.blogspot.com/ http://whathelpsthehomeless.blogspot.com/
- nate_meurer 5y ago
  In addition to the links she gave, you can look back at her HN comments. Lots of good stuff here.
- nobody9999 5y ago
  >How did this happen? What became a barrier for work mainly? Skills, network ? Did you find groups of other homeless similar to yourself or did you isolate yourself. Not GP, but the biggest barrier to work I had was not having a regular place to shower or keep clean clothes. For some strange reason, employers don't like it if you're unbathed and in dirty clothes. I was never able to figure out why. Perhaps you could opine on that?
  - gunshai 5y ago
    Sarcasm aside, I do remember reading and talking to formally homeless folks saying that they would commonly have gym memberships for this very reason. Second to that at least in the city I live in, many barbershops and dry cleaners offer free service to homeless who are going to be interviewed.

zarzavat 5y ago

People can be homeless without living on the street. Homeless doesn't necessarily mean shelterless, it means you don't have a home.

quickthrower2 5y ago

What experience is that? Handing out food to homeless people a while back about 1 of the 20 was drunk and the rest sober and lucid. One had given up heroin.

nate_meurer 5y ago

Not according to the National Coalition for the Homeless: > The Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration (2003) estimates, 38% of homeless people were dependent on alcohol and 26% abused other drugs. https://nationalhomeless.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Substance-Abuse-and-Homelessness.pdf https://nationalhomeless.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Subs...

nobody9999 5y ago
>> The Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration (2003) estimates, 38% of homeless people were dependent on alcohol and 26% abused other drugs. Actually, more recent data[0] shows that 36% of chronically homeless people have drug dependency/mental health issues. And since only ~20% of the homeless are chronically homeless, that's less than ten percent of the homeless population. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27953080 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27953080

Lammy 5y ago

Drugs are escapism. Nobody wants to be addicted to booze or meth or heroin if they were otherwise happy with their life. The same factors lead to addition and homelessness.

wbsss4412 5y ago

Is anecdotal evidence is a solid basis for public policy?