4 ms·

Yeah it wasn't meant to be an analogy. For example consider a real murder video, is its posession illegal and does it mean its owner should be a murder suspect?

slg 5y ago
You are still falling into the same line of thinking here. The person isn't arrested because we assume they are a molester. They are arrested for possessing illegal material. Your argument here really sounds like you are suggesting that CP should be legal and it is the action of molesting that should be illegal. I don't think you would find many people who agree with that. Society has decided both are separate crimes and while there is likely large overlap, overlap is not required to be charged for either crime individually.
- cblconfederate 5y ago
  > Society has decided both are separate crimes Actually it's legislators and the courts that come up with these laws and they are complicated. The question is if these laws reduce child abuse or simply increase spying, and in the end what is the acceptable balance between these two.
  - slg 5y ago
    Legislators are a proxy for society. Do you believe that if you polled the US that any sizable portion of the country would be in support of legalizing CP?
    - cblconfederate 5y ago
      In liberal democracies legislators also protect fundamental rights from the whims of the majority. > if you polled the US that any sizable portion No, but they also would agree to that they should have an option to keep their data privately. Maybe the public should be polled about this tradeoff? For example the case of virtual CP has an interesting legal history https://www.freedomforuminstitute.org/first-amendment-center/topics/freedom-of-speech-2/internet-first-amendment/virtual-child-pornography/ https://www.freedomforuminstitute.org/first-amendment-center...
      - slg 5y ago
        >No, but they also wouldn't consent to having no option left to record their thoughts privately. Maybe the public should be polled about this tradeoff? It is fine if this is your argument, but you don't have to wrap this argument in with the very legality of CP. You can acknowledge something is and should be a crime while also being against these type of automated dragnets to find people guilty of said crime.
        cblconfederate 5y ago
        > something is and should be a crime while also being against these type of automated But there is a clear tradeoff between the two so saying that would be a useless platitude. If we really see the internet as an extension of our vocal chords, then we should have individual rights to it, especially considering the fact that the internet infrastructure is not provided by the governments themselves, only the spying is.
        slg 5y ago
        I don't know what to say to you if you consider someone voicing opposition to this move by Apple as a "useless platitude" if they don't also believe that we have a constitutional right to post CP on the internet.
    - matheusmoreira 5y ago
      If you polled the population, chances are they'd support torture, rape and execution as punishment for abusers. The real crime is child abuse. Material related to that is also illegal because it presumably creates demand for the abuse. Whether that's actually true I don't know.

slg 5y ago

You are still falling into the same line of thinking here. The person isn't arrested because we assume they are a molester. They are arrested for possessing illegal material. Your argument here really sounds like you are suggesting that CP should be legal and it is the action of molesting that should be illegal. I don't think you would find many people who agree with that. Society has decided both are separate crimes and while there is likely large overlap, overlap is not required to be charged for either crime individually.

cblconfederate 5y ago
> Society has decided both are separate crimes Actually it's legislators and the courts that come up with these laws and they are complicated. The question is if these laws reduce child abuse or simply increase spying, and in the end what is the acceptable balance between these two.
- slg 5y ago
  Legislators are a proxy for society. Do you believe that if you polled the US that any sizable portion of the country would be in support of legalizing CP?
  - cblconfederate 5y ago
    In liberal democracies legislators also protect fundamental rights from the whims of the majority. > if you polled the US that any sizable portion No, but they also would agree to that they should have an option to keep their data privately. Maybe the public should be polled about this tradeoff? For example the case of virtual CP has an interesting legal history https://www.freedomforuminstitute.org/first-amendment-center/topics/freedom-of-speech-2/internet-first-amendment/virtual-child-pornography/ https://www.freedomforuminstitute.org/first-amendment-center...
    - slg 5y ago
      >No, but they also wouldn't consent to having no option left to record their thoughts privately. Maybe the public should be polled about this tradeoff? It is fine if this is your argument, but you don't have to wrap this argument in with the very legality of CP. You can acknowledge something is and should be a crime while also being against these type of automated dragnets to find people guilty of said crime.
      - cblconfederate 5y ago
        > something is and should be a crime while also being against these type of automated But there is a clear tradeoff between the two so saying that would be a useless platitude. If we really see the internet as an extension of our vocal chords, then we should have individual rights to it, especially considering the fact that the internet infrastructure is not provided by the governments themselves, only the spying is.
        slg 5y ago
        I don't know what to say to you if you consider someone voicing opposition to this move by Apple as a "useless platitude" if they don't also believe that we have a constitutional right to post CP on the internet.
  - matheusmoreira 5y ago
    If you polled the population, chances are they'd support torture, rape and execution as punishment for abusers. The real crime is child abuse. Material related to that is also illegal because it presumably creates demand for the abuse. Whether that's actually true I don't know.