7 ms·

So what are we going to do about it? I have a large user base on iOS. Considering a blackout protest.

by zionic 5y ago

mrtksn 5y ago
IMHO, Unless everything being E2E encrypted becomes the law we can’t do anything about it because that’s not Apple’s initiative but comes from people whose job is to know things and they cannot resist keeping their hands out of these data collecting devices. They promise politicians that all the troubles will go away if we do that. Child pornography, Terrorism? Solve it the old way. I don’t know why citizens are obligated to make their jobs easier. We survived the times when phone calls were not moderated, we survived the times when signal intelligence was not a thing.
- munk-a 5y ago
  Unless I missed a big part of this story Apple isn't being compelled by a court to comply - so if the presence of this tech causes a larger PR stink than publicly backing out of the rollout then Apple will read the writing on the wall. Public and political pressure is definitely an issue - but it's still soft-pressure so applying more pressure in the other direction will be compelling to Apple.
  - mrtksn 5y ago
    Apple was supposed to E2E encrypt everything. Then reports surfaced that FBI complained and they stopped. The are speculations about this being Apple’s solution to government demands so that they can continue migrating to E2E. They are trying a solution where the device reports you to the authorities so that Apple gets out of the business of knowing your data.
    - mrtksn 5y ago
      Just to clarify, this "on device content control" defies all the benefits of the E2E encryption because it is "at the end". It will enable Apple to implement E2E and give the authorities a channel to program the devices to report users in possession of content deemed unacceptable by the authorities.
- HWR_14 5y ago
  > Solve it the old way. In fairness, in the "old way" it was impossible for two random people to communicate in real-time between continents without the ability of authorities to observe/break it. Privacy and security is quite important, but let's not lose track of the fact that there are many tools authorities have lost in the past few decades. In WWII major powers weren't able to have the same security of military communications as an idiot can today. And that's relative to codebreaking technology. If I had a good solution, I'd tell you.
  - mrtksn 5y ago
    The difference is that previously you had to be targeted and intercepted. Thinking that someone is listening was something that paranoid people would do. Now your device is actually watching you and reporting you. Today only for child porn but there’s no technical reason of it not being extended to anything.
    - HWR_14 5y ago
      > The difference is that previously you had to be targeted and intercepted This is also true, to some degree. I believe all calls to the USSR were monitored, for instance. But the dragnet is thrown much further these days.
- pomian 5y ago
  That was a very well put together comment. Good one.
Blammar 5y ago
Write an iCloud photo frontend that uploads only encrypted images to iCloud and decrypts on your phone only?
- p2t2p 5y ago
  Won't help, the detection of on your phone now. I wonder if one can have a local VPN with a profile installed which could MITM iCloud upload process and take those matching envelops out. But in the end of the day the only robust way to communicate privately is good old Linux with good old mutt with good old PGP
- brokenmachine 5y ago
  At that point, it's time to think very seriously about finding a different hardware provider.

So what are we going to do about it? I have a large user base on iOS. Considering a blackout protest.

by zionic 5y ago

So what are we going to do about it? I have a large user base on iOS. Considering a blackout protest.

IMHO, Unless everything being E2E encrypted becomes the law we can’t do anything about it because that’s not Apple’s initiative but comes from people whose job is to know things and they cannot resist keeping their hands out of these data collecting devices. They promise politicians that all the troubles will go away if we do that. Child pornography, Terrorism? Solve it the old way. I don’t know why citizens are obligated to make their jobs easier. We survived the times when phone calls were not moderated, we survived the times when signal intelligence was not a thing.

munk-a 5y ago
Unless I missed a big part of this story Apple isn't being compelled by a court to comply - so if the presence of this tech causes a larger PR stink than publicly backing out of the rollout then Apple will read the writing on the wall. Public and political pressure is definitely an issue - but it's still soft-pressure so applying more pressure in the other direction will be compelling to Apple.
- mrtksn 5y ago
  Apple was supposed to E2E encrypt everything. Then reports surfaced that FBI complained and they stopped. The are speculations about this being Apple’s solution to government demands so that they can continue migrating to E2E. They are trying a solution where the device reports you to the authorities so that Apple gets out of the business of knowing your data.
  - mrtksn 5y ago
    Just to clarify, this "on device content control" defies all the benefits of the E2E encryption because it is "at the end". It will enable Apple to implement E2E and give the authorities a channel to program the devices to report users in possession of content deemed unacceptable by the authorities.
HWR_14 5y ago
> Solve it the old way. In fairness, in the "old way" it was impossible for two random people to communicate in real-time between continents without the ability of authorities to observe/break it. Privacy and security is quite important, but let's not lose track of the fact that there are many tools authorities have lost in the past few decades. In WWII major powers weren't able to have the same security of military communications as an idiot can today. And that's relative to codebreaking technology. If I had a good solution, I'd tell you.
- mrtksn 5y ago
  The difference is that previously you had to be targeted and intercepted. Thinking that someone is listening was something that paranoid people would do. Now your device is actually watching you and reporting you. Today only for child porn but there’s no technical reason of it not being extended to anything.
  - HWR_14 5y ago
    > The difference is that previously you had to be targeted and intercepted This is also true, to some degree. I believe all calls to the USSR were monitored, for instance. But the dragnet is thrown much further these days.
pomian 5y ago
That was a very well put together comment. Good one.

Blammar 5y ago

Write an iCloud photo frontend that uploads only encrypted images to iCloud and decrypts on your phone only?

p2t2p 5y ago
Won't help, the detection of on your phone now. I wonder if one can have a local VPN with a profile installed which could MITM iCloud upload process and take those matching envelops out. But in the end of the day the only robust way to communicate privately is good old Linux with good old mutt with good old PGP
brokenmachine 5y ago
At that point, it's time to think very seriously about finding a different hardware provider.