5 ms·

> The problem with living in these desirable, walkable, neighborhoods is that once they're built up enough, activists lobby to destroy what was built to fill it

> The problem with living in these desirable, walkable, neighborhoods is that once they're built up enough, activists lobby to destroy what was built to fill it with high density housing because of the critical mass of services available to the area. You're absolutely right. I live in one of these neighborhoods (actually literally was built as a streetcar suburb) and we have historic district protections so we're safe. However, the impetus to build the 'high-density' housing is because we stopped building neighborhoods like mine with a corner store, bakeries, grocery store and restaurants within walking distance. IMO, new developments of tract homes should mandate that within the housing tract, the developer makes a business district with space for local businesses. It's simply the fact that we have a massive business shortage in this country that people feel the need to build high-density housing near the paltry number of business districts we have. Or, I mean, we could not, and everyone else can just subsidize my housing appreciation. Personally, I'd like to spread the joy of my life, but housing activists seem hell-bent on driving my home price up, so whatever.

Schiendelman 5y ago
Everyone is subsidizing your housing appreciation when you don’t allow more housing to be built. The activists who are driving up the price of your property are the activists trying to stop upward growth. It’s pure supply and demand.
- iammisc 5y ago
  > Everyone is subsidizing your housing appreciation when you don’t allow more housing to be built. The activists who are driving up the price of your property are the activists trying to stop upward growth. It’s pure supply and demand. I advocate for building and development. I'm just pointing out that the activists that are supposedly rallying for 'high-density' just end up increasing my home price because (1) the high-density builders want the land and (2) people want to live in neighborhoods like mine. Heads I win, tails you lose.
  - Schiendelman 5y ago
    I don’t think the activists have any impact on demand.
  - afarrell 5y ago
    Building N units of dense housing also ends up simultaneously increasing the number of people allowed to live in a walkable neighborhood by N.
another_story 5y ago
That business district would probably sit mostly empty if the density of customers isn't there. At best you'd get a strip mall with big box stores every 5km like typical American suburbs. If you want a thriving business district with a mixture of local business you need to have density.
- iammisc 5y ago
  > If you want a thriving business district with a mixture of local business you need to have density. I simply disagree. You can have single family homes and a thriving business district. Not ginormous mcmansions. But modest, good-sized single family homes. I disagree with your assessment because I've seen how great things can be in my own neighborhood. I'm not even suggesting no high-density housing. On the actual 'satellite downtown' core a few blocks from my house, there are a few big apartment buildings. This is fine... apartment buildings are perfect for younger people and couples.
  - Gigachad 5y ago
    The stores go empty because people who already have the sunk cost of a car will just drive to the next city for bigger stores at cheaper prices.
  - another_story 5y ago
    The apartment buildings are what add density. People who live in single family homes will invariably take the extra 15 to 20 minutes to drive to Costco and save money.
    - strix_varius 5y ago
      As someone who lives in this sort of neighborhood, I see every day that this isn’t true. Why would you spend 30-40 extra minutes in a car when you could be walking down tree-lined streets to your neighborhood bakery?
    - iammisc 5y ago
      Two things: (1) I know this shocks most people used to cookie cutter American suburbs and cities, but you can put an apartment building in a small satellite business district surrounded by single family homes. (2) Sure. We drive to costco as well. We also shop our local downtown. For example, every Sunday, the local bakery sells off their wares (very nice breads, pies, and cakes) for pennies on the dollar. We also often end up at our local grocery store for sundry items we've run out of or forgotten. Why is preventing people from ever going to costco any concern? I would never suggest to never drive... that's just silly moral policing. I just suggest walking most places because it's way nicer and less stressful. Here's an example. I bike to my gym every morning. It takes 10 minutes. It'd actually take longer to drive given the stop lights. However, if I lived in the burb I was born in, I'd have to drive, because the nearest gym would be miles away. Or, I'd have to purchase my own gym equipment. Instead, in my city, I have a 24 hour gym within biking distance, and I only need to take neighborhood streets to get there. It's lovely. There are many services people need regularly that aren't bulk grocery shopping and we don't need to drive to, things like gyms, haircuts, restaurants, specialty hardware, small groceries, etc.

Schiendelman 5y ago

Everyone is subsidizing your housing appreciation when you don’t allow more housing to be built. The activists who are driving up the price of your property are the activists trying to stop upward growth. It’s pure supply and demand.

iammisc 5y ago
> Everyone is subsidizing your housing appreciation when you don’t allow more housing to be built. The activists who are driving up the price of your property are the activists trying to stop upward growth. It’s pure supply and demand. I advocate for building and development. I'm just pointing out that the activists that are supposedly rallying for 'high-density' just end up increasing my home price because (1) the high-density builders want the land and (2) people want to live in neighborhoods like mine. Heads I win, tails you lose.
- Schiendelman 5y ago
  I don’t think the activists have any impact on demand.
- afarrell 5y ago
  Building N units of dense housing also ends up simultaneously increasing the number of people allowed to live in a walkable neighborhood by N.

another_story 5y ago

That business district would probably sit mostly empty if the density of customers isn't there. At best you'd get a strip mall with big box stores every 5km like typical American suburbs. If you want a thriving business district with a mixture of local business you need to have density.

iammisc 5y ago
> If you want a thriving business district with a mixture of local business you need to have density. I simply disagree. You can have single family homes and a thriving business district. Not ginormous mcmansions. But modest, good-sized single family homes. I disagree with your assessment because I've seen how great things can be in my own neighborhood. I'm not even suggesting no high-density housing. On the actual 'satellite downtown' core a few blocks from my house, there are a few big apartment buildings. This is fine... apartment buildings are perfect for younger people and couples.
- Gigachad 5y ago
  The stores go empty because people who already have the sunk cost of a car will just drive to the next city for bigger stores at cheaper prices.
- another_story 5y ago
  The apartment buildings are what add density. People who live in single family homes will invariably take the extra 15 to 20 minutes to drive to Costco and save money.
  - strix_varius 5y ago
    As someone who lives in this sort of neighborhood, I see every day that this isn’t true. Why would you spend 30-40 extra minutes in a car when you could be walking down tree-lined streets to your neighborhood bakery?
  - iammisc 5y ago
    Two things: (1) I know this shocks most people used to cookie cutter American suburbs and cities, but you can put an apartment building in a small satellite business district surrounded by single family homes. (2) Sure. We drive to costco as well. We also shop our local downtown. For example, every Sunday, the local bakery sells off their wares (very nice breads, pies, and cakes) for pennies on the dollar. We also often end up at our local grocery store for sundry items we've run out of or forgotten. Why is preventing people from ever going to costco any concern? I would never suggest to never drive... that's just silly moral policing. I just suggest walking most places because it's way nicer and less stressful. Here's an example. I bike to my gym every morning. It takes 10 minutes. It'd actually take longer to drive given the stop lights. However, if I lived in the burb I was born in, I'd have to drive, because the nearest gym would be miles away. Or, I'd have to purchase my own gym equipment. Instead, in my city, I have a 24 hour gym within biking distance, and I only need to take neighborhood streets to get there. It's lovely. There are many services people need regularly that aren't bulk grocery shopping and we don't need to drive to, things like gyms, haircuts, restaurants, specialty hardware, small groceries, etc.