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> Do you really want a false positive to result in your intimate moments getting shared around some outsourced boiler room for laughs? these people also have n
by vineyardmike 5y ago
> Do you really want a false positive to result in your intimate moments getting shared around some outsourced boiler room for laughs?
these people also have no incentive to find you innocent for innocent photos. If they err on the side of false-negative, they might find themselves at the wrong end of a criminal search ("why didn't you catch this"), but if they false-positive they at worse ruin a random person's life.
- jdavis703 5y agoEven still this has to go to the FBI or other law enforcement agency, then it’s passed on to a prosecutor and finally a jury will evaluate. I have a tough time believing that false positives would slip through that many layers. That isn’t to say CASM scanning or any other type of drag net is OK. But I’m not concerned about a perceptual hash ruining someone’s life, just like I’m not concerned about a botched millimeter wave scan ruining someone’s life for weapons possession.
- gambiting 5y ago>>I have a tough time believing that false positives would slip through that many layers. I don't, not in the slightest. Back in the days when Geek Squad had to report any suspicious images found during routine computer repairs, a guy got reported to the police for having child porn, arrested, fired from his job, named in the local newspaper as a pedophile, all before the prosecutor was actually persuaded by the defense attorney to look at these "disgusting pictures".....which turned out to be his own grand children in a pool. Of course he was immediately released but not before the damage to his life was done. >>But I’m not concerned about a perceptual hash ruining someone’s life I'm incredibly concerned about this, I don't see how you can not be.
- zimpenfish 5y ago> Back in the days when Geek Squad had to report any suspicious images [...] which turned out to be his own grand children Do you have a link to sources for this case? I've had a look and can't see anything that matches right now.
- gambiting 5y agoSo you know, I'm genuienly trying to find you a link for this case, but it just proves how absolutely shit Google is nowadays. I swear just few years ago I'd find it by just searching "geek squad grandfather wrongly accused" - now searching for this phrase gives me absolute nonsense, with anything past result 5-6 being completely and totally unrelated(6th result is wiki page for killing of marther Luther king). I will post a link if I can't find it, but dealing with Google nowadays is beyond frustrating.
- mattnewton 5y agoBy the time it has reached a jury you're already publicly accused of having CSAM which is a life ruining moment on its own, and no one before the jury has much incentive to halt the process on your behalf.
- vineyardmike 5y ago> But I’m not concerned about a perceptual hash ruining someone’s life I want ZERO computerized algorithms involved in any law enforcement process - especially the "criminal hunting" steps.
- TchoBeer 5y agoDoes claiming a false positive not run the risk of libel?
- vineyardmike 5y agoIANAL but i doubt it - they just forward to law enforcement
- heavyset_go 5y agoI doubt it. The claim isn't being published and you'd have a hard time proving damages.
- whakim 5y agoThis is mostly orthogonal to the author's original point (with which I concur, having also implemented image similarity via hashing and hamming distance). There just aren't a lot of knobs to tune using these algorithms so it's difficult if not impossible to make small changes to err on the side of reducing false positives.