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> I am sure that we will see strong opinions come from both the tesla and non-tesla EV camps in discussing this post, so hopefully my dual perspective will be o

> I am sure that we will see strong opinions come from both the tesla and non-tesla EV camps in discussing this post, so hopefully my dual perspective will be of some value. If it doesn't plug into a supercharger it's pretty much defective on arrival. https://youtu.be/hA_B7qPyUDA?t=1136 https://youtu.be/hA_B7qPyUDA?t=1136

derefr 5y ago
Is anyone working on an active adapter to make a Supercharger think the device on the other end is a Tesla vehicle, so it'll put out a charge? I have no idea how Superchargers work, but I assume there's some sort of active electronic handshake going on over some control pins to authorize power delivery — perhaps even something cryptographic, e.g. the "pump" and the car both having Tesla-signed TLS certificates and peer-verifying one-another. If so, spoofing a Tesla might involve cloning a cert from a real Tesla vehicles, possibly from the car's TPM. Full-on DRM-breaking stuff. Stuff I would expect from the kind of teams that present at DEF CON.
- fy20 5y ago
  Tesla are supposedly opening up their network soon, but that's not really the issue. Cars have a limit on how fast they can charge, and for a lot of more economic cars that's often quite slow. The 2022 Nissan LEAF 40kW (149 mile) model can only charge at 50kW, the 60kW (226 mile) model pushes that to 100kW. The marketing says that's 45 minutes to 80% capacity. The 2022 Chevy Bolt is similar. If you are just commuting to and from work, then these cars are fine, but for a long trip you definately want an EV that can charge faster.
  - derefr 5y ago
    Sure, but a car isn’t the only thing you could potentially plug into a Supercharger. (That’s why I said “the device on the other end” rather than “the vehicle on the other end.”) Maybe you just want to charge the gigantic custom-built battery bank you use for accessories power in your RV! Or maybe one that’s just a hacked Tesla Powerwall or five. (That’d be the “white-hat” use-case.) Or perhaps a portable (towable) hydrogen generator, to fill bottles for hydrogen-powered cars. Still an “adapter”, technically, though doing it at the substation-level rather than the near-power-generation HVDC level is probably horribly inefficient and wasteful. Or perhaps a mobile Bitcoin mining rig consisting of server racks installed in a air-conditioned shipping container on the back of a semi-truck… Or the lighting and sound for a pop-up roadside rave event!
clouddrover 5y ago
> If it doesn't plug into a supercharger it's pretty much defective on arrival. Is it? Then why is it that these cars charge faster than a Tesla Model 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gxcukAhIAU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gxcukAhIAU And why is it that Teslas charge faster on CCS chargers than on Tesla chargers: https://insideevs.com/news/507489/tesla-model3-charging-faster-ccs2/ https://insideevs.com/news/507489/tesla-model3-charging-fast... And why is it that the fastest EV cannonball run was done with a CCS car: https://insideevs.com/news/464763/porsche-taycan-beats-electric-cross-country-cannonball-record/ https://insideevs.com/news/464763/porsche-taycan-beats-elect... What would be best is if Tesla just went ahead and put a CCS inlet on their North American cars, like Tesla already does in Europe. The European Teslas are better cars purely because they support the open charging standard and can plug into more chargers with no need for an adapter. Tesla's proprietary plug is a dead end. CCS Teslas in North America would gain access to an additional 4,566 charging locations with no need for an adapter: https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/electricity_locations.html https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/electricity_locations.html

derefr 5y ago

Is anyone working on an active adapter to make a Supercharger think the device on the other end is a Tesla vehicle, so it'll put out a charge? I have no idea how Superchargers work, but I assume there's some sort of active electronic handshake going on over some control pins to authorize power delivery — perhaps even something cryptographic, e.g. the "pump" and the car both having Tesla-signed TLS certificates and peer-verifying one-another. If so, spoofing a Tesla might involve cloning a cert from a real Tesla vehicles, possibly from the car's TPM. Full-on DRM-breaking stuff. Stuff I would expect from the kind of teams that present at DEF CON.

fy20 5y ago
Tesla are supposedly opening up their network soon, but that's not really the issue. Cars have a limit on how fast they can charge, and for a lot of more economic cars that's often quite slow. The 2022 Nissan LEAF 40kW (149 mile) model can only charge at 50kW, the 60kW (226 mile) model pushes that to 100kW. The marketing says that's 45 minutes to 80% capacity. The 2022 Chevy Bolt is similar. If you are just commuting to and from work, then these cars are fine, but for a long trip you definately want an EV that can charge faster.
- derefr 5y ago
  Sure, but a car isn’t the only thing you could potentially plug into a Supercharger. (That’s why I said “the device on the other end” rather than “the vehicle on the other end.”) Maybe you just want to charge the gigantic custom-built battery bank you use for accessories power in your RV! Or maybe one that’s just a hacked Tesla Powerwall or five. (That’d be the “white-hat” use-case.) Or perhaps a portable (towable) hydrogen generator, to fill bottles for hydrogen-powered cars. Still an “adapter”, technically, though doing it at the substation-level rather than the near-power-generation HVDC level is probably horribly inefficient and wasteful. Or perhaps a mobile Bitcoin mining rig consisting of server racks installed in a air-conditioned shipping container on the back of a semi-truck… Or the lighting and sound for a pop-up roadside rave event!

clouddrover 5y ago

> If it doesn't plug into a supercharger it's pretty much defective on arrival. Is it? Then why is it that these cars charge faster than a Tesla Model 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gxcukAhIAU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gxcukAhIAU And why is it that Teslas charge faster on CCS chargers than on Tesla chargers: https://insideevs.com/news/507489/tesla-model3-charging-faster-ccs2/ https://insideevs.com/news/507489/tesla-model3-charging-fast... And why is it that the fastest EV cannonball run was done with a CCS car: https://insideevs.com/news/464763/porsche-taycan-beats-electric-cross-country-cannonball-record/ https://insideevs.com/news/464763/porsche-taycan-beats-elect... What would be best is if Tesla just went ahead and put a CCS inlet on their North American cars, like Tesla already does in Europe. The European Teslas are better cars purely because they support the open charging standard and can plug into more chargers with no need for an adapter. Tesla's proprietary plug is a dead end. CCS Teslas in North America would gain access to an additional 4,566 charging locations with no need for an adapter: https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/electricity_locations.html https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/electricity_locations.html