8 ms·

I purchased a Pixel phone to test this stuff on. I installed LineageOS and found I couldn't run some google apps. I reinstalled LineageOS with https://opengapp

I purchased a Pixel phone to test this stuff on. I installed LineageOS and found I couldn't run some google apps. I reinstalled LineageOS with https://opengapps.org https://opengapps.org added during the install and made the mistake of transferring from my old phone which brought all the google services and everything back to the phone (mostly). I then installed CalyxOS - much easier install process than lineage. Really liked the defaults. Could not get many apps that relied on google play services though. If I didn't need so many Google-tied apps I would pick this as my phone OS for basic stuff like messaging and browsing. Installed LineageOS again, found there were a couple apps I could not get working after all (50 different apps installed). In the end I gave up and re-flashed Google firmware back onto the phone. I spent about 10 hours on all this stuff and simply ran out of time for now. I though I could get away from Google but I didn't realize how much my apps needed Google.

yusi-san 5y ago
You can try lineage with MicroG[0][1], it replaces Google services. If you want stores there is the F-Droid store for FOSS app or Aurora Store if you want casual apps. YouTube can be replaced by NewPipe and these days I'm trying Organic Maps (a layer for OSM with nav and offline maps) to replace Google Maps. [0] : https://microg.org/ https://microg.org/ [1] : https://lineage.microg.org/ https://lineage.microg.org/
- sleavey 5y ago
  Does WhatsApp still work? I care about privacy and degoogling but I'm not yet quite ready to abandon my social network over it. Currently I use lineageos with the micro Google apps bundle which provides the real Play Store services and WhatsApp still works. I'd be happy to use the replacement if that was still the case. EDIT: for clarity, by "micro Google apps bundle" I mean the opengapps [1] micro variant. [1] https://opengapps.org/ https://opengapps.org/
  - rashil2000 5y ago
    I use LineageOS+microG and practically all apps not made by Google (WhatsApp, Spotify, PayTM) work as they should. Even for some Google apps, there are good alternatives like YouTube Vanced etc.
    - sleavey 5y ago
      Good to know, thanks! I plan to reinstall LineageOS since I stupidly relocked my bootloader last time and can't upgrade without wiping the phone. I'll try out microG this time!
      - atatatat 5y ago
        > relocked my bootloader last time and can't upgrade without wiping the phone That doesn't sound right.
        efreak 5y ago
        Sounds right to me. Unlocking your bootloader wipes storage.
        commoner 5y ago
        LineageOS isn't designed to be used with a locked bootloader. Most devices supported by LineageOS don't support relocking the bootloader with a custom key, and for the devices that do support it (mainly Google and OnePlus phones), it's not recommended to do this on LineageOS. FAQ on using LineageOS with a locked bootloader: https://www.reddit.com/r/LineageOS/comments/n7yo7u/a_discussion_about_bootloader_lockingunlocking/ https://www.reddit.com/r/LineageOS/comments/n7yo7u/a_discuss... Some Android distros, including CalyxOS, are only intended to be used with a locked bootloader, and support over-the-air upgrades without needing it to be unlocked.
  - yusi-san 5y ago
    Yes I believe it does (I switched to Signal years ago and didn't try WhatsApp for a long time). Many proprietary apps runs great even the ones depending on Google Services.
  - dthomas 5y ago
    WhatsApp allows you to download an APK from their website. It works without Google Play dependencies.
- NullPrefix 5y ago
  Youtube app can be replaced with Firefox
  - flir 5y ago
    Vance gives you an audio-only option, which is nice.
    - commoner 5y ago
      NewPipe also has an audio-only option. Unlike YouTube Vanced (a mod of the original YouTube app), NewPipe is open source and supports video downloading. I think the main advantages of Vanced over NewPipe are the SponsorBlock integration and the ability to log in to a Google account (if that's what you're looking for).
      - newsch 5y ago
        I've been very happy with this fork of newpipe that has sponsorblock built-in (it's been kept up to date with upstream so far): https://github.com/polymorphicshade/NewPipe https://github.com/polymorphicshade/NewPipe It started with this rejected PR: https://github.com/TeamNewPipe/NewPipe/pull/3205 https://github.com/TeamNewPipe/NewPipe/pull/3205
        efreak 5y ago
        The sponsorblock faith is also available through fdroid
      - einpoklum 5y ago
        How do you play Youtube clips audio-only with NewPipe?
        commoner 5y ago
        On the video view, the "Background" button with the headphones icon plays the audio only. You can also hold the button to add the clip to your queue.
- andrepd 5y ago
  OsmAnd is a more fully featured solution for maps.
  - yusi-san 5y ago
    I agree that OsmAnd is a better option for public transportation and navigation, however, I found that Organic Maps is better at showing stuffs like restaurants/shops etc and more reactive (smoothness, quick to show the map). I used OsmAnd for quite a long time and just wanted to give Organic Maps a try to see other alternatives. Both are quite promising as replacing Google maps IMO.
- FredFS456 5y ago
  How does Organic Maps compare to OsmAnd?
  - commoner 5y ago
    Organic Maps has a better and easier-to-use interface, especially for turn-by-turn navigation while driving. OsmAnd is much more fully featured, especially if you are using it to contribute data to OpenStreetMap. With OsmAnd Live, you can download hourly updates to OpenStreetMap data, while Organic Maps updates at less frequent intervals. The app supports plugins for additional functionality, including trip recording, Mapillary street view, and various map views (such as nautical and ski views). There's no harm in having both installed, since they have different strengths.
  - biodranik 5y ago
    In OM, we have faster renderer, more compact maps and focus on easier UX for general public. All app’s features are free. And we plan to increase the frequency of map updates, and of course add more features.
    - tentacleuno 5y ago
      Did you guys ever solve the massive TTS problem? I would use Organic Maps if not for this. It's a bit of a safety concern when you need to look at the map all the time.
- naasking 5y ago
  > YouTube can be replaced by NewPipe I'm using SmartTubeNext. It's great. Haven't tried NewPipe, anyone have a comparison?
  - commoner 5y ago
    SmartTubeNext's interface (which enforces landscape mode) is optimized for Android TV, while NewPipe's interface feels more at home on an Android phone or tablet.
brink 5y ago
I had nearly the exact same experience.
fragileone 5y ago
CalyxOS includes microG which supports some of the most popular APIs. Which apps did you have issues with?
- commoner 5y ago
  Details would be very helpful. Any incompatibilities with microG can be reported to its GitHub repo: https://github.com/microg/GmsCore/issues https://github.com/microg/GmsCore/issues
riedel 5y ago
Don't you think it is kind of absurd that you have to buy a device from Google to degooglify it as CalyxOS does not support other devices. How difficult would it be to actually port it to a device already supported e.g. by lineage?
- tholdem 5y ago
  The OS in this case has nothing to do with not being able to be ported to other phones. Google is one of the few who will pay extra to Qualcomm for the ability for users to flash their own signing keys. Lineage does not support one of the most important security feature of any modern smartphone, lockable bootloader and verified boot. Lineage might be more privacy respecting than Googles Android, but far behind regarding security. CalyxOS and GrapheneOS are the only real options (because they support relockable bootloaders) if you dont want to use Googles Android.
  - zozbot234 5y ago
    If you care about verified boot, you can let your phone boot in fastboot mode and issue a "fastboot boot" command from a trusted device. Combine that with plain FDE, and it's as secure as anything Qualcomm will support out of the box.
    - NeoLaval 5y ago
      !
  - entropy1111 5y ago
    There's no point in using LineageOS after they dropped PrivacyGuard instead of expanding it. You start going down this road and suddenly you'll have a phone that doesn't pass SafetyNet anymore. You have to use 3rd-party applications and probably a ROM made by a random internet user not affiliated with LineageOS because they drop support for devices all the time. The phone manufacturers bribe ROM developers to do that or they just move on quickly. MicroG is another really unstable experience. Google bought KaiOS and will buy the next KaiOS too. They moved and continue moving features to their proprietary castle. There's just no way you can win this fight against Google. Long term the only solution is by some miracle a FOSS phone gets enough popularity for developers to want to make apps for it. I doubt it. My solution is unfortunately using two separates phones. Android and a FOSS one.
andrepd 5y ago
Did you try microg? It's dead simple to install (they publish builds of lineage+microg for any device which has an official lineage build), works out of the box, and I haven't had any compatibility issues. > I reinstalled LineageOS with https://opengapps.org https://opengapps.org added during the install and made the mistake of transferring from my old phone which brought all the google services and everything back to the phone (mostly). I think you have misunderstood what "opengapps" is. Despite the name, it's just a zip that installs Google services and apps (Google framework, play store, etc)
- sleavey 5y ago
  I think they meant that when they ran Google's automatic import tool it reinstalled all the forcefully installed Google apps from the old phone. The difference with lineageos though is that you can uninstall them afterwards.
glenstein 5y ago
>If I didn't need so many Google-tied apps I would pick this as my phone OS for basic stuff like messaging and browsing. In case I run into a similar issue as you - what turned out to be Google-tied apps you weren't able to do without?
reshie 5y ago
im sure your looking at stuff like fdroid. there are definitely sacrifices that have to be made but there are quite a few alternatives to the more popular stuff.
suyash 5y ago
Having developer for Android, I can tell you that Google pushes their libraries hard and make that as default in tutorials, docs etc so most developers end of depending on play services without realizing that is only one of the many options. This is done by design to lock developers in and by proxy, lock users to Google flavored Android OS

yusi-san 5y ago

You can try lineage with MicroG[0][1], it replaces Google services. If you want stores there is the F-Droid store for FOSS app or Aurora Store if you want casual apps. YouTube can be replaced by NewPipe and these days I'm trying Organic Maps (a layer for OSM with nav and offline maps) to replace Google Maps. [0] : https://microg.org/ https://microg.org/ [1] : https://lineage.microg.org/ https://lineage.microg.org/

sleavey 5y ago
Does WhatsApp still work? I care about privacy and degoogling but I'm not yet quite ready to abandon my social network over it. Currently I use lineageos with the micro Google apps bundle which provides the real Play Store services and WhatsApp still works. I'd be happy to use the replacement if that was still the case. EDIT: for clarity, by "micro Google apps bundle" I mean the opengapps [1] micro variant. [1] https://opengapps.org/ https://opengapps.org/
- rashil2000 5y ago
  I use LineageOS+microG and practically all apps not made by Google (WhatsApp, Spotify, PayTM) work as they should. Even for some Google apps, there are good alternatives like YouTube Vanced etc.
  - sleavey 5y ago
    Good to know, thanks! I plan to reinstall LineageOS since I stupidly relocked my bootloader last time and can't upgrade without wiping the phone. I'll try out microG this time!
    - atatatat 5y ago
      > relocked my bootloader last time and can't upgrade without wiping the phone That doesn't sound right.
      - efreak 5y ago
        Sounds right to me. Unlocking your bootloader wipes storage.
      - commoner 5y ago
        LineageOS isn't designed to be used with a locked bootloader. Most devices supported by LineageOS don't support relocking the bootloader with a custom key, and for the devices that do support it (mainly Google and OnePlus phones), it's not recommended to do this on LineageOS. FAQ on using LineageOS with a locked bootloader: https://www.reddit.com/r/LineageOS/comments/n7yo7u/a_discussion_about_bootloader_lockingunlocking/ https://www.reddit.com/r/LineageOS/comments/n7yo7u/a_discuss... Some Android distros, including CalyxOS, are only intended to be used with a locked bootloader, and support over-the-air upgrades without needing it to be unlocked.
- yusi-san 5y ago
  Yes I believe it does (I switched to Signal years ago and didn't try WhatsApp for a long time). Many proprietary apps runs great even the ones depending on Google Services.
- dthomas 5y ago
  WhatsApp allows you to download an APK from their website. It works without Google Play dependencies.
NullPrefix 5y ago
Youtube app can be replaced with Firefox
- flir 5y ago
  Vance gives you an audio-only option, which is nice.
  - commoner 5y ago
    NewPipe also has an audio-only option. Unlike YouTube Vanced (a mod of the original YouTube app), NewPipe is open source and supports video downloading. I think the main advantages of Vanced over NewPipe are the SponsorBlock integration and the ability to log in to a Google account (if that's what you're looking for).
    - newsch 5y ago
      I've been very happy with this fork of newpipe that has sponsorblock built-in (it's been kept up to date with upstream so far): https://github.com/polymorphicshade/NewPipe https://github.com/polymorphicshade/NewPipe It started with this rejected PR: https://github.com/TeamNewPipe/NewPipe/pull/3205 https://github.com/TeamNewPipe/NewPipe/pull/3205
      - efreak 5y ago
        The sponsorblock faith is also available through fdroid
    - einpoklum 5y ago
      How do you play Youtube clips audio-only with NewPipe?
      - commoner 5y ago
        On the video view, the "Background" button with the headphones icon plays the audio only. You can also hold the button to add the clip to your queue.
andrepd 5y ago
OsmAnd is a more fully featured solution for maps.
- yusi-san 5y ago
  I agree that OsmAnd is a better option for public transportation and navigation, however, I found that Organic Maps is better at showing stuffs like restaurants/shops etc and more reactive (smoothness, quick to show the map). I used OsmAnd for quite a long time and just wanted to give Organic Maps a try to see other alternatives. Both are quite promising as replacing Google maps IMO.
FredFS456 5y ago
How does Organic Maps compare to OsmAnd?
- commoner 5y ago
  Organic Maps has a better and easier-to-use interface, especially for turn-by-turn navigation while driving. OsmAnd is much more fully featured, especially if you are using it to contribute data to OpenStreetMap. With OsmAnd Live, you can download hourly updates to OpenStreetMap data, while Organic Maps updates at less frequent intervals. The app supports plugins for additional functionality, including trip recording, Mapillary street view, and various map views (such as nautical and ski views). There's no harm in having both installed, since they have different strengths.
- biodranik 5y ago
  In OM, we have faster renderer, more compact maps and focus on easier UX for general public. All app’s features are free. And we plan to increase the frequency of map updates, and of course add more features.
  - tentacleuno 5y ago
    Did you guys ever solve the massive TTS problem? I would use Organic Maps if not for this. It's a bit of a safety concern when you need to look at the map all the time.
naasking 5y ago
> YouTube can be replaced by NewPipe I'm using SmartTubeNext. It's great. Haven't tried NewPipe, anyone have a comparison?
- commoner 5y ago
  SmartTubeNext's interface (which enforces landscape mode) is optimized for Android TV, while NewPipe's interface feels more at home on an Android phone or tablet.

brink 5y ago

I had nearly the exact same experience.

fragileone 5y ago

CalyxOS includes microG which supports some of the most popular APIs. Which apps did you have issues with?

commoner 5y ago
Details would be very helpful. Any incompatibilities with microG can be reported to its GitHub repo: https://github.com/microg/GmsCore/issues https://github.com/microg/GmsCore/issues

riedel 5y ago

Don't you think it is kind of absurd that you have to buy a device from Google to degooglify it as CalyxOS does not support other devices. How difficult would it be to actually port it to a device already supported e.g. by lineage?

tholdem 5y ago
The OS in this case has nothing to do with not being able to be ported to other phones. Google is one of the few who will pay extra to Qualcomm for the ability for users to flash their own signing keys. Lineage does not support one of the most important security feature of any modern smartphone, lockable bootloader and verified boot. Lineage might be more privacy respecting than Googles Android, but far behind regarding security. CalyxOS and GrapheneOS are the only real options (because they support relockable bootloaders) if you dont want to use Googles Android.
- zozbot234 5y ago
  If you care about verified boot, you can let your phone boot in fastboot mode and issue a "fastboot boot" command from a trusted device. Combine that with plain FDE, and it's as secure as anything Qualcomm will support out of the box.
  - NeoLaval 5y ago
    !
- entropy1111 5y ago
  There's no point in using LineageOS after they dropped PrivacyGuard instead of expanding it. You start going down this road and suddenly you'll have a phone that doesn't pass SafetyNet anymore. You have to use 3rd-party applications and probably a ROM made by a random internet user not affiliated with LineageOS because they drop support for devices all the time. The phone manufacturers bribe ROM developers to do that or they just move on quickly. MicroG is another really unstable experience. Google bought KaiOS and will buy the next KaiOS too. They moved and continue moving features to their proprietary castle. There's just no way you can win this fight against Google. Long term the only solution is by some miracle a FOSS phone gets enough popularity for developers to want to make apps for it. I doubt it. My solution is unfortunately using two separates phones. Android and a FOSS one.

andrepd 5y ago

Did you try microg? It's dead simple to install (they publish builds of lineage+microg for any device which has an official lineage build), works out of the box, and I haven't had any compatibility issues. > I reinstalled LineageOS with https://opengapps.org https://opengapps.org added during the install and made the mistake of transferring from my old phone which brought all the google services and everything back to the phone (mostly). I think you have misunderstood what "opengapps" is. Despite the name, it's just a zip that installs Google services and apps (Google framework, play store, etc)

sleavey 5y ago
I think they meant that when they ran Google's automatic import tool it reinstalled all the forcefully installed Google apps from the old phone. The difference with lineageos though is that you can uninstall them afterwards.

glenstein 5y ago

>If I didn't need so many Google-tied apps I would pick this as my phone OS for basic stuff like messaging and browsing. In case I run into a similar issue as you - what turned out to be Google-tied apps you weren't able to do without?

reshie 5y ago

im sure your looking at stuff like fdroid. there are definitely sacrifices that have to be made but there are quite a few alternatives to the more popular stuff.

suyash 5y ago

Having developer for Android, I can tell you that Google pushes their libraries hard and make that as default in tutorials, docs etc so most developers end of depending on play services without realizing that is only one of the many options. This is done by design to lock developers in and by proxy, lock users to Google flavored Android OS