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“I think the disappearance of Flash is closer than people think,” ABI senior analyst Mark Beccue said in a press release accompanying the data. This

by tomlin 15y ago

“I think the disappearance of Flash is closer than people think,” ABI senior analyst Mark Beccue said in a press release accompanying the data. This is from the mouth of someone who doesn't really understand what Flash is, apparently. HTML5 may dethrone Flash as the defacto video delivery system. But, to say HTML5 completely obliterates Flash is...kinda hyperbolic in a way.

Ruudjah 15y ago
So what reasons are there to use flash over HTML5, I ask myself and the HN crowd? -Video. (Mwoah, only non-WebM video, can't really count this one) -Webcam (thanks garethsprice) -Simultaneous sounds (thanks AndyJPartridge) -Cross-browser support (browsers interpreting HTML5 differently) -??? Non competitive advantages: -Games (see Angry Birds) -3D hardware acceleration (both have the same security issues exposing shaders) Competitive advantages HTML5 over flash: -2D Hardware acceleration -Open -Cross-browser support (flash has it's update/versioning problems)
- garethsprice 15y ago
  Cross-browser support. Getting much better, but HTML5 is still a pain to test/debug cross-browser (or, "in IE and in everything else", which is mostly what CBT comes down to)
- AndyJPartridge 15y ago
  For me, the biggest problem I have trying to use HTML5/Javascript/CSS for a game is sound. I can't get background music and sound effects working simultaneously under iOS using just those standards.
  - ericmoritz 15y ago
    is that a deficiency of the iOS browser or the HTML5 standard?
    - AndyJPartridge 15y ago
      iOS mainly: Sounds need to be triggered by touch events, which of course for gaming seriously restricts what you can do. EG: No sound effect from an alien shooting at you.
- amackera 15y ago
  There's a pretty massive software ecosystem surrounding Flash. Tons and tons of mature libraries for Flash. Not so much for HTML5 (though that will change with mass adoption and time).
planb 15y ago
I think video will remain one of the last applications of Flash on the web, because there is no way to implement DRM in HTML5. What's interesting is that even the latest video chat applications by Facebook and Google do not use Flash but their own proprietary plugins (though Google aims to replace this by standard web technologies). What other use cases are there for Flash (let's say in one year, when HTML5 capable browsers will be the default for everyone and their grandma)?
- Ruudjah 15y ago
  DRM will be obsolete, because there's no consumer demand for it.
  - eli 15y ago
    There's tons of demand from consumers, if the consumers of your product happen to be movie studios.
    - Ruudjah 15y ago
      end-consumers.
  - cnunciato 15y ago
    There's plenty of content-provider demand, though. :)
  - planb 15y ago
    But there's consumer demand for content. By your logic, the web will be advertisement free in a few months.
- tomlin 15y ago
  You're trying to dilute Flash into a few "kinda necessary" features. * The kind of 3D coming from Flash Player 11 makes WebGL look bad. * Audio API? * How about recording via webcam (kinda important to YouTube). * Not sure how HTML5 stacks up against Flash in terms of handling advertising (also important to YouTube), but I think Flash wins here. * Flex, Adobe AIR? Oh yeah, technology also evolves. As much as I love the concept of open web technologies, a revolving truth has become painfully clear: What you might be able to do in HTML5 tomorrow, you can do in Flash today.

by tomlin 15y ago

Ruudjah 15y ago

So what reasons are there to use flash over HTML5, I ask myself and the HN crowd? -Video. (Mwoah, only non-WebM video, can't really count this one) -Webcam (thanks garethsprice) -Simultaneous sounds (thanks AndyJPartridge) -Cross-browser support (browsers interpreting HTML5 differently) -??? Non competitive advantages: -Games (see Angry Birds) -3D hardware acceleration (both have the same security issues exposing shaders) Competitive advantages HTML5 over flash: -2D Hardware acceleration -Open -Cross-browser support (flash has it's update/versioning problems)

garethsprice 15y ago
Cross-browser support. Getting much better, but HTML5 is still a pain to test/debug cross-browser (or, "in IE and in everything else", which is mostly what CBT comes down to)
AndyJPartridge 15y ago
For me, the biggest problem I have trying to use HTML5/Javascript/CSS for a game is sound. I can't get background music and sound effects working simultaneously under iOS using just those standards.
- ericmoritz 15y ago
  is that a deficiency of the iOS browser or the HTML5 standard?
  - AndyJPartridge 15y ago
    iOS mainly: Sounds need to be triggered by touch events, which of course for gaming seriously restricts what you can do. EG: No sound effect from an alien shooting at you.
amackera 15y ago
There's a pretty massive software ecosystem surrounding Flash. Tons and tons of mature libraries for Flash. Not so much for HTML5 (though that will change with mass adoption and time).

planb 15y ago

I think video will remain one of the last applications of Flash on the web, because there is no way to implement DRM in HTML5. What's interesting is that even the latest video chat applications by Facebook and Google do not use Flash but their own proprietary plugins (though Google aims to replace this by standard web technologies). What other use cases are there for Flash (let's say in one year, when HTML5 capable browsers will be the default for everyone and their grandma)?

Ruudjah 15y ago
DRM will be obsolete, because there's no consumer demand for it.
- eli 15y ago
  There's tons of demand from consumers, if the consumers of your product happen to be movie studios.
  - Ruudjah 15y ago
    end-consumers.
- cnunciato 15y ago
  There's plenty of content-provider demand, though. :)
- planb 15y ago
  But there's consumer demand for content. By your logic, the web will be advertisement free in a few months.
tomlin 15y ago
You're trying to dilute Flash into a few "kinda necessary" features. * The kind of 3D coming from Flash Player 11 makes WebGL look bad. * Audio API? * How about recording via webcam (kinda important to YouTube). * Not sure how HTML5 stacks up against Flash in terms of handling advertising (also important to YouTube), but I think Flash wins here. * Flex, Adobe AIR? Oh yeah, technology also evolves. As much as I love the concept of open web technologies, a revolving truth has become painfully clear: What you might be able to do in HTML5 tomorrow, you can do in Flash today.