2 ms·

Sure, I agree. So why do we need a Netflix for black people? How does that help? Why can't e.g. the existing Netflix simply air culturally black content if peop

by dcow 5y ago

Sure, I agree. So why do we need a Netflix for black people? How does that help? Why can't e.g. the existing Netflix simply air culturally black content if people are craving more of it? Why does the service itself need to be exclusive and segregated?

tptacek 5y ago
It "helps" by satisfying a market need for a space for Black creators to tell Black stories without shouldering a burden to translate, soften, or attenuate that culture for other audiences, as would be the expectation on a mass media cable channel. It's not complicated; venues like this serve all sorts of ethnicities.
- dcow 5y ago
  I think like many have pointed out, there's a messaging issue. I want to feel like I'm welcome, even though I'm not culturally black, to consume content created by black creators on a platform that helps promote that content. I like k-pop, I like Bollywood, I like Sister Deborah, I generally enjoy experiencing other culture. I don't need attenuation. One of the strengths of America is the capacity for cultural exchange. "Netflix for black people" does not achieve that. It makes me feel unwelcome on the platform and triggers angst related to my opposition to the idea of asserting ownership over and further segregating sub-cultures being part of the solution space. If BlackOak is truly trying to promote black cultural exchange, then don't use exclusive language. I really have no problem with a production company like BET geared at being a space to promote a given subculture. Personally, If I was the founder, I'd welcome this type of feedback even if it feels tired because the appropriate messaging may be integral to the success of the venture. Edit: Want to also point out that in practice we don't seem to attenuate messaging in black pop culture. It's some of the most explicit sexual and sometimes violent content in existence and it appears all over radio, TV, and the internet. I'm not saying it's exclusively that, but it doesn't seem to suffer from expectation that it be attenuated "for white people". If that were happening I'd immediately be on the side of any effort to stop censoring it because I believe in freedom of expression.
  - tptacek 5y ago
    They're not trying to promote Black cultural exchange. That's not the point. Rather, argumentative message board nerds are telling them that's what they need to be doing, rather than serving the customers they really need to love them. They would do well not to take that advice, not least because it is not, in the main, well-intentioned.
    - dcow 5y ago
      I'm not sure what you're suggesting about my intentions or those of people giving honest feedback here. If BlackOak is only interested in black viewers, then good luck. They simply won't be getting my money or attention, then, since I don't identify as culturally black. Personally I don't see why their (or any) platform needs to be exclusive to further their mission. If I made a "Neflix for white people", what do you think the response would be?
      - tptacek 5y ago
        I don't know anything about your intentions, but this whole thread is a good illustration of, again, something YC tells people all the time: start by making something that a few people love, rather than something that everyone will like a little bit, or, worse, just not object to.
        dcow 5y ago
        Well I don't disagree there. Maybe I've just spoken sloppily. I wish BlackOak success in their mission. And I hope at some point I can be part of their vision for audience. Everything else I've said can simply be considered feedback, which I think the founder solicited in the OP.
        tptacek 5y ago
        You easily can be part of their envisioned audience. You just have to be interested in video content that is unapologetically centered in Black culture, and that isn't burning any of its narrative fuel trying to make that cultural background feel familiar or especially palatable to other cultures. I think that sounds pretty neat, if they can pull it off with good content.
dragonwriter 5y ago
> So why do we need a Netflix for black people? Someone perceives an unmet need, and seeks to meet it. > Why can't e.g. the existing Netflix simply air culturally black content if people are craving more of it? They could. Someone with sufficient motivation and resources to launch a business thinks they aren't. That's...kind of true of most startups—an incumbent could meet the need they are marketing too, but they think the incumbents aren't. > Why does the service itself need to be exclusive and segregated? The proposed offering is neither exclusive nor segregated; no one is excluding people from subscribing or segregating them.
- dcow 5y ago
  My point is not that I think they're wrong for trying to address a market. Everybody is welcome to do that. My point is that we don't call Netflix "Netflix for white people" and it's not designed in an exclusive way such that it aims to only serve a white audience. I'm probably not conveying my sentiment well: please read it more as "I'm excited about this effort and want include myself as an audience member to help promote the content they are promoting." If you tell me your service is for black people then I am excluded. My initial comment that stared this sub-thread is that I see a social utility to having content "for women" since it's motivated by biology but I don't see a social utility to having content "for black people" since that seems racially motivated (which we agree is an expression of tribalism) and I don't find our tribal desires to assert subculture dominance to be productive in society. I view western liberalism as an effort to transcend tribalism where we treat all participate as equals rather than continue to divide into subcultures.
  - crooked-v 5y ago
    > My point is that we don't call Netflix "Netflix for white people" and it's not designed in an exclusive way such that it aims to only serve a white audience. Well, sure, because that's not their target market, but also because there isn't really a single predominant 'White culture' in the U.S., distinct from mainstream culture in general, in the same way that 'Black culture' was united by centuries of slavery and cultural destruction. But you can certainly find media out there specifically targeted at people of Irish descent, Spanish descent, British descent, etc. It's just less of a mass-market thing because those groups don't have as much in the way of a distinct culture from the 'mainstream'.

by dcow 5y ago

tptacek 5y ago

It "helps" by satisfying a market need for a space for Black creators to tell Black stories without shouldering a burden to translate, soften, or attenuate that culture for other audiences, as would be the expectation on a mass media cable channel. It's not complicated; venues like this serve all sorts of ethnicities.

dcow 5y ago
I think like many have pointed out, there's a messaging issue. I want to feel like I'm welcome, even though I'm not culturally black, to consume content created by black creators on a platform that helps promote that content. I like k-pop, I like Bollywood, I like Sister Deborah, I generally enjoy experiencing other culture. I don't need attenuation. One of the strengths of America is the capacity for cultural exchange. "Netflix for black people" does not achieve that. It makes me feel unwelcome on the platform and triggers angst related to my opposition to the idea of asserting ownership over and further segregating sub-cultures being part of the solution space. If BlackOak is truly trying to promote black cultural exchange, then don't use exclusive language. I really have no problem with a production company like BET geared at being a space to promote a given subculture. Personally, If I was the founder, I'd welcome this type of feedback even if it feels tired because the appropriate messaging may be integral to the success of the venture. Edit: Want to also point out that in practice we don't seem to attenuate messaging in black pop culture. It's some of the most explicit sexual and sometimes violent content in existence and it appears all over radio, TV, and the internet. I'm not saying it's exclusively that, but it doesn't seem to suffer from expectation that it be attenuated "for white people". If that were happening I'd immediately be on the side of any effort to stop censoring it because I believe in freedom of expression.
- tptacek 5y ago
  They're not trying to promote Black cultural exchange. That's not the point. Rather, argumentative message board nerds are telling them that's what they need to be doing, rather than serving the customers they really need to love them. They would do well not to take that advice, not least because it is not, in the main, well-intentioned.
  - dcow 5y ago
    I'm not sure what you're suggesting about my intentions or those of people giving honest feedback here. If BlackOak is only interested in black viewers, then good luck. They simply won't be getting my money or attention, then, since I don't identify as culturally black. Personally I don't see why their (or any) platform needs to be exclusive to further their mission. If I made a "Neflix for white people", what do you think the response would be?
    - tptacek 5y ago
      I don't know anything about your intentions, but this whole thread is a good illustration of, again, something YC tells people all the time: start by making something that a few people love, rather than something that everyone will like a little bit, or, worse, just not object to.
      - dcow 5y ago
        Well I don't disagree there. Maybe I've just spoken sloppily. I wish BlackOak success in their mission. And I hope at some point I can be part of their vision for audience. Everything else I've said can simply be considered feedback, which I think the founder solicited in the OP.
        tptacek 5y ago
        You easily can be part of their envisioned audience. You just have to be interested in video content that is unapologetically centered in Black culture, and that isn't burning any of its narrative fuel trying to make that cultural background feel familiar or especially palatable to other cultures. I think that sounds pretty neat, if they can pull it off with good content.

dragonwriter 5y ago

> So why do we need a Netflix for black people? Someone perceives an unmet need, and seeks to meet it. > Why can't e.g. the existing Netflix simply air culturally black content if people are craving more of it? They could. Someone with sufficient motivation and resources to launch a business thinks they aren't. That's...kind of true of most startups—an incumbent could meet the need they are marketing too, but they think the incumbents aren't. > Why does the service itself need to be exclusive and segregated? The proposed offering is neither exclusive nor segregated; no one is excluding people from subscribing or segregating them.

dcow 5y ago
My point is not that I think they're wrong for trying to address a market. Everybody is welcome to do that. My point is that we don't call Netflix "Netflix for white people" and it's not designed in an exclusive way such that it aims to only serve a white audience. I'm probably not conveying my sentiment well: please read it more as "I'm excited about this effort and want include myself as an audience member to help promote the content they are promoting." If you tell me your service is for black people then I am excluded. My initial comment that stared this sub-thread is that I see a social utility to having content "for women" since it's motivated by biology but I don't see a social utility to having content "for black people" since that seems racially motivated (which we agree is an expression of tribalism) and I don't find our tribal desires to assert subculture dominance to be productive in society. I view western liberalism as an effort to transcend tribalism where we treat all participate as equals rather than continue to divide into subcultures.
- crooked-v 5y ago
  > My point is that we don't call Netflix "Netflix for white people" and it's not designed in an exclusive way such that it aims to only serve a white audience. Well, sure, because that's not their target market, but also because there isn't really a single predominant 'White culture' in the U.S., distinct from mainstream culture in general, in the same way that 'Black culture' was united by centuries of slavery and cultural destruction. But you can certainly find media out there specifically targeted at people of Irish descent, Spanish descent, British descent, etc. It's just less of a mass-market thing because those groups don't have as much in the way of a distinct culture from the 'mainstream'.