3 ms·

Some of this stuff looks very poorly sourced or misunderstood. > Marrying within the “gotra” is one of the primary reasons for recurring “honour killing” of lo

by gopalv 5y ago

Some of this stuff looks very poorly sourced or misunderstood. > Marrying within the “gotra” is one of the primary reasons for recurring “honour killing” of lovers in India I hope not, because it is such a weird upper-caste nit-pick. > they talk about their lives and walk around the park, or eat aloo-chaat or golgappas at a roadside stall That is such a still frame of the middle class life in Delhi from the 90s. My partner's been dragging me to Green park and AIIMS to revisit places which has stayed running for 25 years. The 2012 Nirbhaya case had a chilling effect on this for young couples, which is why the trend moved away from being outside and into malls with security cameras.

factorialboy 5y ago
Unfortunately Indian media is full of "secular" authors pretending to be liberal but regularly dishing hate against native faiths. But to be fair, it's not just the news media that's afflicted by this disease, bollywood is no better.
- namdnay 5y ago
  Huh? I don’t think any journalist cares what god(s) you worship , as long as you don’t impose anything on those around you
- webmobdev 5y ago
  I didn't understand your viewpoint. What exactly are you angry at in believing the author is "dishing hate" - that the author pointed out that marrying within gotras is frowned upon or that people are sometimes killed over it (honour killing)? Both are facts.
  - ummonk 5y ago
    People are murdered by family over all sorts of things, but random incidents don't imply a general pattern. Honor killing is a real occurrence but not over gotra-incest.
    - webmobdev 5y ago
      > Honor killing is a real occurrence but not over gotra-incest. Only some Hindus (often castiest / religious fundamentalists) believe that a sexual relationship within the same gotra is incest. And it is that mindset that leads to honour killing in the name of gotra. And they do happen. But you are right that they often aren't the major catalyst for honour killing, even if many demand a ban on same-gotra marriage: Will such so-called “honour killings” stop if the Hindu Marriage Act, 1955 is amended to prohibit marriages within the same gotra? Unlikely. That may be the most publicised of the demands and threats issued by the Khap Mahapanchayat — a congregation of caste Panchayats from Jat strongholds in Haryana, Uttar Pradesh and Rajasthan — in Kurukshetra on April 13, and subsequently elsewhere. But it was not the only one. They have also reportedly called for a ban on marriages within the same village and contiguous villages, as well as de-recognition of temple weddings uniting runaway couples. (And it is because of such political demands by castiests / religious fundamentalist Hindus that the popular perception that gotra is responsible for honour killing has spread - not because of some "secular conspiracy" against Hindus.) This has even been challenged in court and marriage within the same gotra has been ruled legal in India even before independence: Same-gotra marriages were declared legally valid by the Bombay High Court as far back as in 1945 in the Madhavrao vs. Raghavendrarao case involving a Deshastha Brahmin couple. Two reputed judges — Harilal Kania (who became the first Chief Justice of independent India) and P.B. Gajendragadkar (who went on to become the Chief Justice of India in the 1960s) — examined several court verdicts, consulted the writings of leading experts and quoted from Hindu scriptures in their ruling on whether a 'sagotra' (same-gotra) marriage was valid under Hindu law/custom. They concluded that it was. Source: No honour in murder - https://www.thehindu.com/features/magazine/No-honour-in-murder/article16302614.ece https://www.thehindu.com/features/magazine/No-honour-in-murd...
- random314 5y ago
  Standard right wing talking point. Liberal authors criticizing the current regime, a Hindu nationalist party, are anti nationals. Here criticism of the BJP or social ills is equated to hatred of Hinduism. The authors might themselves be Hindus, but it doesn't matter.
paxys 5y ago
Yeah that part stood out to me. Honor killings happen for the opposite reason – the sides are too far apart in terms of religion, caste etc. Gotra is an overall minor concern even to hard-liners.
lostlogin 5y ago
> The 2012 Nirbhaya case I wasn’t familiar with it but remembered after reading the below link. Warning, it’s horrific. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Delhi_gang_rape_and_murder https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Delhi_gang_rape_and_mur...
dartharva 5y ago
> I hope not, because it is such a weird upper-caste nit-pick. Honor killing is also a weird upper-caste nit-pick, you know

by gopalv 5y ago

factorialboy 5y ago

Unfortunately Indian media is full of "secular" authors pretending to be liberal but regularly dishing hate against native faiths. But to be fair, it's not just the news media that's afflicted by this disease, bollywood is no better.

namdnay 5y ago
Huh? I don’t think any journalist cares what god(s) you worship , as long as you don’t impose anything on those around you
webmobdev 5y ago
I didn't understand your viewpoint. What exactly are you angry at in believing the author is "dishing hate" - that the author pointed out that marrying within gotras is frowned upon or that people are sometimes killed over it (honour killing)? Both are facts.
- ummonk 5y ago
  People are murdered by family over all sorts of things, but random incidents don't imply a general pattern. Honor killing is a real occurrence but not over gotra-incest.
  - webmobdev 5y ago
    > Honor killing is a real occurrence but not over gotra-incest. Only some Hindus (often castiest / religious fundamentalists) believe that a sexual relationship within the same gotra is incest. And it is that mindset that leads to honour killing in the name of gotra. And they do happen. But you are right that they often aren't the major catalyst for honour killing, even if many demand a ban on same-gotra marriage: Will such so-called “honour killings” stop if the Hindu Marriage Act, 1955 is amended to prohibit marriages within the same gotra? Unlikely. That may be the most publicised of the demands and threats issued by the Khap Mahapanchayat — a congregation of caste Panchayats from Jat strongholds in Haryana, Uttar Pradesh and Rajasthan — in Kurukshetra on April 13, and subsequently elsewhere. But it was not the only one. They have also reportedly called for a ban on marriages within the same village and contiguous villages, as well as de-recognition of temple weddings uniting runaway couples. (And it is because of such political demands by castiests / religious fundamentalist Hindus that the popular perception that gotra is responsible for honour killing has spread - not because of some "secular conspiracy" against Hindus.) This has even been challenged in court and marriage within the same gotra has been ruled legal in India even before independence: Same-gotra marriages were declared legally valid by the Bombay High Court as far back as in 1945 in the Madhavrao vs. Raghavendrarao case involving a Deshastha Brahmin couple. Two reputed judges — Harilal Kania (who became the first Chief Justice of independent India) and P.B. Gajendragadkar (who went on to become the Chief Justice of India in the 1960s) — examined several court verdicts, consulted the writings of leading experts and quoted from Hindu scriptures in their ruling on whether a 'sagotra' (same-gotra) marriage was valid under Hindu law/custom. They concluded that it was. Source: No honour in murder - https://www.thehindu.com/features/magazine/No-honour-in-murder/article16302614.ece https://www.thehindu.com/features/magazine/No-honour-in-murd...
random314 5y ago
Standard right wing talking point. Liberal authors criticizing the current regime, a Hindu nationalist party, are anti nationals. Here criticism of the BJP or social ills is equated to hatred of Hinduism. The authors might themselves be Hindus, but it doesn't matter.

paxys 5y ago

Yeah that part stood out to me. Honor killings happen for the opposite reason – the sides are too far apart in terms of religion, caste etc. Gotra is an overall minor concern even to hard-liners.

lostlogin 5y ago

> The 2012 Nirbhaya case I wasn’t familiar with it but remembered after reading the below link. Warning, it’s horrific. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Delhi_gang_rape_and_murder https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Delhi_gang_rape_and_mur...

dartharva 5y ago

> I hope not, because it is such a weird upper-caste nit-pick. Honor killing is also a weird upper-caste nit-pick, you know