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You can verify the code yourself as open source. Also this is more about what Apple is saying it is doing, which I object to, and I feel is higher risk. But ult

You can verify the code yourself as open source. Also this is more about what Apple is saying it is doing, which I object to, and I feel is higher risk. But ultimately your point stands.

YokoSix 5y ago
The problem is I never could verify the code of every Pop!_OS release - that’s why I'm a Mac user. I’d have to rely on other users to check if everything is okay. The good thing with Apple is that all eyes are put onto them and every minor step they’re doing is well commented around the world. The smaller the companies and projects, the quieter the voices if something turns bad.
- Engineering-MD 5y ago
  While true, the benefit of open source is that the code is there and visible to all. Apple has closed source so cannot be easily inspected and so issues can go unnoticed despite so many eyes. With system76, as they have a business to defend (and real Bank accounts and identities tied to the businees), any intentional hole/spyware could have major legal ramifications. I think for more major open source companies, the code is inspected sufficiently. I would trust smaller ones much less. System 76 is fairly major, and most software comes from other major sources so should be inspected fairly well.
- ipaddr 5y ago
  You don't get to see the code. That's like saying Microsoft in the 90s/2000 could do no wrong because all eyes were on them. Or enron...
  - YokoSix 5y ago
    But what would I do with the code? I can’t read it, I can’t verify it, I can’t guarantee that it’s harmless. What I, as a normal user can do, is to go to the Financial Times or maybe even The Verge where they tell me that Apple did something stupid.
    - thrower123123 5y ago
      You could do the same thing you do when you want services which you cannot perform yourself: pay for the service. You could create a fund with like-minded people for the code to be reviewed. The benefit would be that for each subsequent release the cost would be much lower than for the initial one.
- 1_player 5y ago
  Is this really subtle attempt at sarcasm? "I can't be bothered to verify Pop_OS so I'll trust macOS, which is IMPOSSIBLE for me to verify." How is code written behind closed doors by a closed, for-profit company more trustworthy than open source code? There is always the reasonable doubt, whether it's closed or open, but it's much easier to do nefarious or just _unspoken_ things when nobody except employees under NDAs have access to the source code. The reason you trust Apple more than Pop_OS is simply because you've decided to have pretty much blind faith in their marketing content and PR speak. That's not to say Apple acts in bad faith necessarily, but blind trust in a blackbox doesn't make for great opsec.
  - YokoSix 5y ago
    Even if I switch macOS for open source alternatives I still have to rely on closed source software for important parts. And let’s be honest: It’s almost impossible to recreate Apple’s ecosystem with open source components. It’s even harder with iOS. I could switch to Android or sone obscure alternative operating software where I don’t even know if if’s still there next year.
    - arvinsim 5y ago
      So you are essentially saying "I give up"? Tech really drilled in learned helplessness on the masses.
      - YokoSix 5y ago
        My problem is: Where do I put the line? When I install Linux, should I still use Spotify, Steam and Reddit? No, because none of them are open source? Can I still use Google services? YouTube, search, mail? No? DuckDuckGo? But how do I know they're not invading my privacy? Do I have to use an open source email provider? Is that even a thing? Should I install a VPN? Do I constantly have to use Tor? Do I need to live boot Tails from my USB stick so I my usage can't be tracked and buy a prepaid Nokia 3210 that I put into a metal bag when I don't use it? And even if I go all the way down the rabbit hole: How do I know that my hardware isn't compromised? And do I constantly have to revaluate my privacy choices because one component of them could be compromised? What kind of life would that be?

You can verify the code yourself as open source. Also this is more about what Apple is saying it is doing, which I object to, and I feel is higher risk. But ultimately your point stands.

YokoSix 5y ago

The problem is I never could verify the code of every Pop!_OS release - that’s why I'm a Mac user. I’d have to rely on other users to check if everything is okay. The good thing with Apple is that all eyes are put onto them and every minor step they’re doing is well commented around the world. The smaller the companies and projects, the quieter the voices if something turns bad.

Engineering-MD 5y ago
While true, the benefit of open source is that the code is there and visible to all. Apple has closed source so cannot be easily inspected and so issues can go unnoticed despite so many eyes. With system76, as they have a business to defend (and real Bank accounts and identities tied to the businees), any intentional hole/spyware could have major legal ramifications. I think for more major open source companies, the code is inspected sufficiently. I would trust smaller ones much less. System 76 is fairly major, and most software comes from other major sources so should be inspected fairly well.
ipaddr 5y ago
You don't get to see the code. That's like saying Microsoft in the 90s/2000 could do no wrong because all eyes were on them. Or enron...
- YokoSix 5y ago
  But what would I do with the code? I can’t read it, I can’t verify it, I can’t guarantee that it’s harmless. What I, as a normal user can do, is to go to the Financial Times or maybe even The Verge where they tell me that Apple did something stupid.
  - thrower123123 5y ago
    You could do the same thing you do when you want services which you cannot perform yourself: pay for the service. You could create a fund with like-minded people for the code to be reviewed. The benefit would be that for each subsequent release the cost would be much lower than for the initial one.
1_player 5y ago
Is this really subtle attempt at sarcasm? "I can't be bothered to verify Pop_OS so I'll trust macOS, which is IMPOSSIBLE for me to verify." How is code written behind closed doors by a closed, for-profit company more trustworthy than open source code? There is always the reasonable doubt, whether it's closed or open, but it's much easier to do nefarious or just _unspoken_ things when nobody except employees under NDAs have access to the source code. The reason you trust Apple more than Pop_OS is simply because you've decided to have pretty much blind faith in their marketing content and PR speak. That's not to say Apple acts in bad faith necessarily, but blind trust in a blackbox doesn't make for great opsec.
- YokoSix 5y ago
  Even if I switch macOS for open source alternatives I still have to rely on closed source software for important parts. And let’s be honest: It’s almost impossible to recreate Apple’s ecosystem with open source components. It’s even harder with iOS. I could switch to Android or sone obscure alternative operating software where I don’t even know if if’s still there next year.
  - arvinsim 5y ago
    So you are essentially saying "I give up"? Tech really drilled in learned helplessness on the masses.
    - YokoSix 5y ago
      My problem is: Where do I put the line? When I install Linux, should I still use Spotify, Steam and Reddit? No, because none of them are open source? Can I still use Google services? YouTube, search, mail? No? DuckDuckGo? But how do I know they're not invading my privacy? Do I have to use an open source email provider? Is that even a thing? Should I install a VPN? Do I constantly have to use Tor? Do I need to live boot Tails from my USB stick so I my usage can't be tracked and buy a prepaid Nokia 3210 that I put into a metal bag when I don't use it? And even if I go all the way down the rabbit hole: How do I know that my hardware isn't compromised? And do I constantly have to revaluate my privacy choices because one component of them could be compromised? What kind of life would that be?