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A lot of the "subsidies" are just deductions available to businesses in general, like tax credits for research and development or not being double taxed on fore

A lot of the "subsidies" are just deductions available to businesses in general, like tax credits for research and development or not being double taxed on foreign income. [0] I have even seen the deductibility of interest included in these reports. The others are externality calculations. Important, but really what they are asking for is extra taxes and calling it a subsidy when no money is being spent. [0] http://priceofoil.org/content/uploads/2021/06/End-Fossil-Fuel-Subsidies-letter_final.pdf http://priceofoil.org/content/uploads/2021/06/End-Fossil-Fue... Are there a large number of oil and gas specific subsidies?

jdavis703 5y ago
It depends on how one defines subsidies. But yes at least in the US there are a few that are very particular to the resource extraction industry (which obviously includes “green tech” activities such as rare earth mining.) https://www.eesi.org/papers/view/fact-sheet-fossil-fuel-subsidies-a-closer-look-at-tax-breaks-and-societal-costs https://www.eesi.org/papers/view/fact-sheet-fossil-fuel-subs...
- MattGaiser 5y ago
  Good find. Thanks.
lateobserver 5y ago
Correct, that's tax breaks that apply to any company. No, fossil fuels aren't subsidised. People consume them because they are the most efficient.
colinmhayes 5y ago
It seems like the vast majority of this "subsidy" is the untaxed externality. I absolutely agree that a carbon tax is needed, but it's pretty slimy to redefine the word subsidy like they have.
- MattGaiser 5y ago
  See the other comment. Direct subsidy seems to be 20 billion a year.
ZeroGravitas 5y ago
This feels like a rebuttal, but it's not clear to me what you're trying to say. That a subsidy isn't a subsidy if it is given to more than one defined group? That tax breaks aren't subsidies? That cutting subsidies on something has a similar impact as raising taxes? That raising taxes on things you want to discourage is bad? Or ineffective?
- MattGaiser 5y ago
  When I first read these reports, I got the impression that oil and gas was getting cash from the government or specific tax breaks. That 3T in tax dollars was collected and using a narrow definition of subsidy, paid to them or using a wider definition of it, fairly specific tax breaks. My thinking was that the government was actively supporting oil and gas over solar. Really what most of the 3T is consists of general business deductions that any business can get and negative externality calculations.
fourthwaveska 5y ago
Damn. Maybe I should tell the IRS that I’m an oil company instead of an expat.

jdavis703 5y ago

It depends on how one defines subsidies. But yes at least in the US there are a few that are very particular to the resource extraction industry (which obviously includes “green tech” activities such as rare earth mining.) https://www.eesi.org/papers/view/fact-sheet-fossil-fuel-subsidies-a-closer-look-at-tax-breaks-and-societal-costs https://www.eesi.org/papers/view/fact-sheet-fossil-fuel-subs...

MattGaiser 5y ago
Good find. Thanks.

lateobserver 5y ago

Correct, that's tax breaks that apply to any company. No, fossil fuels aren't subsidised. People consume them because they are the most efficient.

colinmhayes 5y ago

It seems like the vast majority of this "subsidy" is the untaxed externality. I absolutely agree that a carbon tax is needed, but it's pretty slimy to redefine the word subsidy like they have.

MattGaiser 5y ago
See the other comment. Direct subsidy seems to be 20 billion a year.

ZeroGravitas 5y ago

This feels like a rebuttal, but it's not clear to me what you're trying to say. That a subsidy isn't a subsidy if it is given to more than one defined group? That tax breaks aren't subsidies? That cutting subsidies on something has a similar impact as raising taxes? That raising taxes on things you want to discourage is bad? Or ineffective?

MattGaiser 5y ago
When I first read these reports, I got the impression that oil and gas was getting cash from the government or specific tax breaks. That 3T in tax dollars was collected and using a narrow definition of subsidy, paid to them or using a wider definition of it, fairly specific tax breaks. My thinking was that the government was actively supporting oil and gas over solar. Really what most of the 3T is consists of general business deductions that any business can get and negative externality calculations.

fourthwaveska 5y ago

Damn. Maybe I should tell the IRS that I’m an oil company instead of an expat.