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The Chinese government already has direct access to everyone's data and messages. There is no encryption. This is mandated. [0]: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/0

by fny 5y ago

The Chinese government already has direct access to everyone's data and messages. There is no encryption. This is mandated. [0]: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/17/technology/apple-china-censorship-data.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/17/technology/apple-china-ce...

FabHK 5y ago
> direct access to everyone's data and messages. From what I understand, only to Chinese customers's data and messages (bad enough, sure, but not as bad as you say).
- brasscodemonkey 5y ago
  Depends on the company. If it’s a Chinese company like TikTok, data is stored in China and therefore property of the state. Things are about to get worse and they crack down on private companies in China. And it’s not just Americans who worry about this. When word got out that Line was storing user data in China servers, it blew up in the news in Japan and Taiwan and went into immediate investigation. Line ended up moving Japanese user data to South Korea. Chinese aggression and Xi’s obsession with power is not just something Americans spout off in Reddit and YouTube comments. They’re a legit threat to Taiwan, Japan, Australia and India. https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Technology/Line-cuts-off-access-from-China-to-protect-personal-data-in-Japan https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Technology/Line-cuts-off-ac...
  - jazzyjackson 5y ago
    TikTok is run by a US-based subsidiary of ByteDance They have insisted “that TikTok U.S. user data is stored in Virginia, with a back-up in Singapore and strict controls on employee access.” https://techcrunch.com/2020/08/17/tiktok-launches-a-new-information-hub-and-twitter-account-to-correct-the-record-it-says/ https://techcrunch.com/2020/08/17/tiktok-launches-a-new-info...
    - giantrobot 5y ago
      China's state security laws trump all "strict controls" for employees.
      - jazzyjackson 5y ago
        Which employees? The ones who aren't Chinese citizens and aren't located in China? What does China state security have to do with them?
        giantrobot 5y ago
        ByteDance's Douyin product has Chinese employees that are based in China. TikTok employees are also ByteDance employees which means a ByteDance employee that passes through their "strict controls" can access whatever TikTok data they want. Even if that's a dozen Chinese nationals that can get access that's a dozen people required by Chinese law to help the state security aparatus. I don't see any reason to give them the benefit of the doubt considering they already moderate content the Chinese government doesn't like [0] as a matter of company policy. [0] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/sep/25/revealed-how-tiktok-censors-videos-that-do-not-please-beijing https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/sep/25/revealed-...
  - FabHK 5y ago
    > Depends on the company I was referring specifically to Apple & iCloud (and I thought GP was as well).
- fny 5y ago
  That is what I meant. The point is that everyone talking about how this policy introduces a backdoor which can be exploited by totalitarian states are wrong. There's no need. Apple willfully obliges local laws.
belter 5y ago
"Apple CEO Tim Cook Slams Indiana’s ‘Religious Freedom’ Law" https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/apple-ceo-tim-cook-slams-indianas-religious-freedom-law-91777/ https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/apple-ce... The hypocrisy levels are vomit inducing...
- zepto 5y ago
  What hipocrisy are you seeing?
  - belter 5y ago
    You must be trolling...Provoking...Joking...Or you are Tim Cook :-) Are the personal ethics and values disconnected from daily business, to be changed based on the place of business or Apple must do it because they are just complying with local laws in China ? Because IBM was also in 1939...Just the local laws. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_and_the_Holocaust https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_and_the_Holocaust
    - zepto 5y ago
      So this is just about China? When Apple started working in China, the prevailing western belief was that economic liberalization would cause political liberalization in China, so even though China was still relatively repressive, doing business there would help move things in a better direction. At the time, this was a very reasonable and widespread belief, which turned out to be wrong. Betting on other people and turning out to be wrong doesn’t make you a hypocrite. It makes you naive.
      - belter 5y ago
        Naive is not something I would associate with Apple, but I guess they have seen it now. I guess they must be ready to pull off any time...Or is their CEO too busy, lecturing others on the righteous paths in other jurisdictions? "Apple's Good Intentions Often Stop at China's Borders" https://www.wired.com/story/apple-china-censorship-apps-flag/ https://www.wired.com/story/apple-china-censorship-apps-flag...

by fny 5y ago

FabHK 5y ago

> direct access to everyone's data and messages. From what I understand, only to Chinese customers's data and messages (bad enough, sure, but not as bad as you say).

brasscodemonkey 5y ago
Depends on the company. If it’s a Chinese company like TikTok, data is stored in China and therefore property of the state. Things are about to get worse and they crack down on private companies in China. And it’s not just Americans who worry about this. When word got out that Line was storing user data in China servers, it blew up in the news in Japan and Taiwan and went into immediate investigation. Line ended up moving Japanese user data to South Korea. Chinese aggression and Xi’s obsession with power is not just something Americans spout off in Reddit and YouTube comments. They’re a legit threat to Taiwan, Japan, Australia and India. https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Technology/Line-cuts-off-access-from-China-to-protect-personal-data-in-Japan https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Technology/Line-cuts-off-ac...
- jazzyjackson 5y ago
  TikTok is run by a US-based subsidiary of ByteDance They have insisted “that TikTok U.S. user data is stored in Virginia, with a back-up in Singapore and strict controls on employee access.” https://techcrunch.com/2020/08/17/tiktok-launches-a-new-information-hub-and-twitter-account-to-correct-the-record-it-says/ https://techcrunch.com/2020/08/17/tiktok-launches-a-new-info...
  - giantrobot 5y ago
    China's state security laws trump all "strict controls" for employees.
    - jazzyjackson 5y ago
      Which employees? The ones who aren't Chinese citizens and aren't located in China? What does China state security have to do with them?
      - giantrobot 5y ago
        ByteDance's Douyin product has Chinese employees that are based in China. TikTok employees are also ByteDance employees which means a ByteDance employee that passes through their "strict controls" can access whatever TikTok data they want. Even if that's a dozen Chinese nationals that can get access that's a dozen people required by Chinese law to help the state security aparatus. I don't see any reason to give them the benefit of the doubt considering they already moderate content the Chinese government doesn't like [0] as a matter of company policy. [0] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/sep/25/revealed-how-tiktok-censors-videos-that-do-not-please-beijing https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/sep/25/revealed-...
- FabHK 5y ago
  > Depends on the company I was referring specifically to Apple & iCloud (and I thought GP was as well).
fny 5y ago
That is what I meant. The point is that everyone talking about how this policy introduces a backdoor which can be exploited by totalitarian states are wrong. There's no need. Apple willfully obliges local laws.

belter 5y ago

"Apple CEO Tim Cook Slams Indiana’s ‘Religious Freedom’ Law" https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/apple-ceo-tim-cook-slams-indianas-religious-freedom-law-91777/ https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/apple-ce... The hypocrisy levels are vomit inducing...

zepto 5y ago
What hipocrisy are you seeing?
- belter 5y ago
  You must be trolling...Provoking...Joking...Or you are Tim Cook :-) Are the personal ethics and values disconnected from daily business, to be changed based on the place of business or Apple must do it because they are just complying with local laws in China ? Because IBM was also in 1939...Just the local laws. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_and_the_Holocaust https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_and_the_Holocaust
  - zepto 5y ago
    So this is just about China? When Apple started working in China, the prevailing western belief was that economic liberalization would cause political liberalization in China, so even though China was still relatively repressive, doing business there would help move things in a better direction. At the time, this was a very reasonable and widespread belief, which turned out to be wrong. Betting on other people and turning out to be wrong doesn’t make you a hypocrite. It makes you naive.
    - belter 5y ago
      Naive is not something I would associate with Apple, but I guess they have seen it now. I guess they must be ready to pull off any time...Or is their CEO too busy, lecturing others on the righteous paths in other jurisdictions? "Apple's Good Intentions Often Stop at China's Borders" https://www.wired.com/story/apple-china-censorship-apps-flag/ https://www.wired.com/story/apple-china-censorship-apps-flag...