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if it's full offline with no subscriptions or internet connectivity - I'm up for some. If it needs any kind of connectivity or it comes as a service - no way i

if it's full offline with no subscriptions or internet connectivity - I'm up for some. If it needs any kind of connectivity or it comes as a service - no way in hell I'm exposing my family to the risk of not being able to flush a toiled one day because of a tweet or god know what.

jmkni 5y ago
> If it needs any kind of connectivity or it comes as a service - no way in hell I'm exposing my family to the risk of not being able to flush a toilet one day because of a tweet or god know what. That sounds like the plot to a Black Mirror episode
mauvehaus 5y ago
The problem is twofold: 1) People don't understand and don't want to have to understand how WiFi, servers, clients, protocols, GUIDs, etc work so they can up a standalone system. Manufacturers create systems requiring internet connectivity so they can abstract away some of the complexity from the end users. Unfortunately, that means when stuff fails, it's totally opaque, as described in TFA. I mean, shit, most people couldn't wire a lamp correctly or change a tire [citation needed, but you get my point]. 2) Rent seeking and data mining. Why let the customer pay for the lightbulb once and use it forever when you can make them pay for a monthly subscription and sell the usage data? And then you can force an upgrade when you deprecate the service before the light bulb burns out. Win/win! Remember: when somebody says "internet of things" what you should hear is "billions on unpatched, unmaintained Linux devices sold by companies whose core competencies aren't securing computers racing each other to the bottom".
- White_Wolf 5y ago
  to be entirely honest I see the IOT part as a blessing and a curse. I can see what potential benefits IOT devices could bring but the risks of all these outdated devices in my home scare the hell out of me. I know it sounds like paranoid talk but my whole life is digital these days.
- durbleflorp 5y ago
  Okay, but neither of those problems are actually an issue with smart homes as a concept, they're mostly issues with the way profit motive drives behavior in a capitalist system. The first point is confusing because the majority of tools people use today they can't repair themselves. That's what happens as technology advances, you need specialists to understand each system. If you look at things like earthships that are built to manage a lot more factors than a typical home, it becomes pretty clear how useful automating some of those systems and allowing them to share data could be. If you had good open standards for the tech and were actually trying to make things that improved people's lives or saved energy rather than mine data or recurring revenue, you could make some cool shit. Really the complaint should be about the way these products are developed and marketed, which is hardly unique to this sector.
anm89 5y ago
The problem with this is that it seems like you are now on the hook for long term maintenance of some hacky system you threw together. I think if you view this is a hobby and a chance to play with electronics then that is probably a great use case. But if your goal is to minimize the amount of time you are spending on this stuff, I'm very skeptical that whatever system you are throwing together on your own is really a good way to do that. There is a reason that so many of the systems out there suck. Building good ones is really hard, takes a ton of research, R&D, and collaboration between many experts. I fail to see how removing all of that and throwing something together yourself really creates a reliable system

jmkni 5y ago

> If it needs any kind of connectivity or it comes as a service - no way in hell I'm exposing my family to the risk of not being able to flush a toilet one day because of a tweet or god know what. That sounds like the plot to a Black Mirror episode

mauvehaus 5y ago

The problem is twofold: 1) People don't understand and don't want to have to understand how WiFi, servers, clients, protocols, GUIDs, etc work so they can up a standalone system. Manufacturers create systems requiring internet connectivity so they can abstract away some of the complexity from the end users. Unfortunately, that means when stuff fails, it's totally opaque, as described in TFA. I mean, shit, most people couldn't wire a lamp correctly or change a tire [citation needed, but you get my point]. 2) Rent seeking and data mining. Why let the customer pay for the lightbulb once and use it forever when you can make them pay for a monthly subscription and sell the usage data? And then you can force an upgrade when you deprecate the service before the light bulb burns out. Win/win! Remember: when somebody says "internet of things" what you should hear is "billions on unpatched, unmaintained Linux devices sold by companies whose core competencies aren't securing computers racing each other to the bottom".

White_Wolf 5y ago
to be entirely honest I see the IOT part as a blessing and a curse. I can see what potential benefits IOT devices could bring but the risks of all these outdated devices in my home scare the hell out of me. I know it sounds like paranoid talk but my whole life is digital these days.
durbleflorp 5y ago
Okay, but neither of those problems are actually an issue with smart homes as a concept, they're mostly issues with the way profit motive drives behavior in a capitalist system. The first point is confusing because the majority of tools people use today they can't repair themselves. That's what happens as technology advances, you need specialists to understand each system. If you look at things like earthships that are built to manage a lot more factors than a typical home, it becomes pretty clear how useful automating some of those systems and allowing them to share data could be. If you had good open standards for the tech and were actually trying to make things that improved people's lives or saved energy rather than mine data or recurring revenue, you could make some cool shit. Really the complaint should be about the way these products are developed and marketed, which is hardly unique to this sector.

anm89 5y ago

The problem with this is that it seems like you are now on the hook for long term maintenance of some hacky system you threw together. I think if you view this is a hobby and a chance to play with electronics then that is probably a great use case. But if your goal is to minimize the amount of time you are spending on this stuff, I'm very skeptical that whatever system you are throwing together on your own is really a good way to do that. There is a reason that so many of the systems out there suck. Building good ones is really hard, takes a ton of research, R&D, and collaboration between many experts. I fail to see how removing all of that and throwing something together yourself really creates a reliable system