4 ms·

Maybe join or build a company or some kind of activity to help us survive.

quenix 5y ago
I'm an undergraduate student and in no financial position to start or join a company. This just further illustrates that a large segment of society is powerless against things like this. The headlines don't help, they just actively worsen my mental health.
- CalRobert 5y ago
  If I might ask - how are you not in a position to join a company? Is getting a job not a normal thing to do when you're in a rough spot financially? Climate.careers might be worth a look (I'm not affiliated, just keeping an eye on it myself)
  - quenix 5y ago
    Thanks for the link.
- FabHK 5y ago
  I'd look at the positive trends. Dire warnings have, in the past, often lead to improvements that prevented the worst outcomes. Fatalism and resignation are not good nor helpful for you as an individual, nor for society as a whole (they also forestall meaningful corrective action). The fact is that large trends have mostly pointed in the right direction over the last century or so, on a worldwide scale. (Examples: [1]-[17]) Some literature I'd look at as counterpoints: - Steve Pinker, Enlightenment Now [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enlightenment_Now https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enlightenment_Now] - Matt Ridley, The Rational Optimist [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rational_Optimist https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rational_Optimist] - Hans Rosling, Factfulness: Ten Reasons We're Wrong About the World – and Why Things Are Better Than You Think [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factfulness:_Ten_Reasons_We%27re_Wrong_About_the_World_–_and_Why_Things_Are_Better_Than_You_Think https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factfulness:_Ten_Reasons_We%27...] - Julian Simon, The State of Humanity Note: Some of these writers and arguments are co-opted by rabid libertarians or ideologues that argue that all is well, there is nothing to worry about, and nothing needs to be done (and certainly no government regulation of business) [N1]. That is nonsense, and not a position I advocate. There are many worrisome trends, and we have to do something about them. But, there have been predictions of doom since the dawn of mankind (see: Malthus [D1], Ehrlich [D2]), and they have not panned out, either. Conclusion/TL;DR: Things have largely gotten better for humanity over long timeframes. There are still many problems now (inequality, climate, etc.), but if we apply ourselves, there is a good chance we can tackle them. Footnotes [1] Life Expectancy [https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/life-expectancy?tab=chart&time=1770..2019&country=Africa~Asia~Europe~OWID_WRL~Americas~Oceania https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/life-expectancy?tab=chart...] [2] HDI [https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/human-development-index-escosura https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/human-development-index-e...] [3] Child Mortality [https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/child-mortality?tab=chart https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/child-mortality?tab=chart] [4] Suicide rates (not improving, but not worsening) [https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/suicide-rates-by-country https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/suicide-rates-by-country] [5] Air pollution [https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/death-rates-from-air-pollution?country=~OWID_WRL https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/death-rates-from-air-poll...] [6] Polio [https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/number-of-estimated-paralytic-polio-cases-by-world-region https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/number-of-estimated-paral...] [7] Cholera [https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/cholera-deaths-in-great-britain https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/cholera-deaths-in-great-b...] [8] Tuberculosis, Malaria, HIV/Aids [https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/deaths-from-infections-of-currently-noneradicable-diseases?country=~OWID_WRL https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/deaths-from-infections-of...] [9] Anemia in children [https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/prevalence-of-anemia-in-children https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/prevalence-of-anemia-in-c...] [10] Access to electricity [https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/share-of-the-population-with-access-to-electricity?tab=chart https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/share-of-the-population-w...] [11] Death from indoor air pollution [https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/death-rate-by-source-from-indoor-air-pollution?tab=chart https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/death-rate-by-source-from...] [12] Death from unsafe sanitation [https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/share-deaths-unsafe-sanitation?tab=chart https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/share-deaths-unsafe-sanit...] [https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/death-rates-sanitation?tab=chart https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/death-rates-sanitation?ta...] [13] Share of people who say they're happy [https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/share-of-people-who-say-they-are-happy https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/share-of-people-who-say-t...] [14] Use of agricultural land per capita [https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/agricultural-area-per-capita https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/agricultural-area-per-cap...] [15] Forests [https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/forest-area-as-share-of-land-area?tab=chart&time=earliest..latest&country=England~Scotland~FRA~USA https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/forest-area-as-share-of-l...] [16] Famine [https://ourworldindata.org/famine-mortality-over-the-long-run https://ourworldindata.org/famine-mortality-over-the-long-ru...] [17] Child labour [https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/various-measures-of-child-labour-incidence https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/various-measures-of-child...] [https://ourworldindata.org/child-labor#long-run-history-of-child-labour-in-today-s-rich-countries https://ourworldindata.org/child-labor#long-run-history-of-c...] [N1] Julian Simon himself was one of those over-optimistic libertarians. But the data he collected is still eye-opening. [D1] Malthus: "This constant effort as constantly tends to subject the lower classes of the society to distress and to prevent any great permanent amelioration of their condition." [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Essay_on_the_Principle_of_Population https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Essay_on_the_Principle_of_P...] [D2] Ehrlich, in 1968: "The battle to feed all of humanity is over. In the 1970s hundreds of millions of people will starve to death in spite of any crash programs embarked upon now. At this late date nothing can prevent a substantial increase in the world death rate." [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Population_Bomb https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Population_Bomb] But a UN report in 2010: 'the percentage of the world's population who qualify as "undernourished" has fallen by more than half, from 33 percent to about 16 percent, since Ehrlich published The Population Bomb.' See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon–Ehrlich_wager https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon–Ehrlich_wager
wayoutthere 5y ago
This is basically what “communism” is. And I do think communism is the only answer for a world facing a lifetime of declining resources and productivity. Capitalism is great for a world based in perpetual growth but under long-term deflationary pressure it will deliver a worse quality of life and be more oppressive than a more collective form of government (and it must be violently oppressive to keep the mass of starving people from threatening the meager profits that will remain). You’re already seeing this in the younger millennials and Gen Z. We’re smart enough to see what’s coming and more of us are radicalizing every day.
- inpdx 5y ago
  Unfortunately communism is horrible for individual privacy, liberty, and often life everywhere it's been tried, because humans suck.
  - _jal 5y ago
    I seriously doubt governments emerging from ecological collapse will be as pleasant as one of the 20th century eastern-euro communist governments you're probably thinking of. Surveillance today is already more all-encompassing in democracies than it was in Eastern Germany. Just wait for an emergency that scares people enough, and that becomes weaponized. Individual rights don't last in emergencies.
  - wayoutthere 5y ago
    If you think communism is bad, wait until you see long-term deflation under capitalism.
  - l-_l-_l-_lo_ol 5y ago
    Yeah. It just doesn't cohere with human nature. Capitalism at least manages. Communism seems like something that would happen maybe post-singularity and after scarcity is solved. And we'd be like homogenous spacefarers like the aliens depicted in our stories.
- dead-snake 5y ago
  Do any of the hundred million murders done in the name of communism give you pause? The stupa of bones and skulls in the killing fields, the pieces of bone and cloth scraps still gradually working their way to the surface, all these years later? No matter how many times I see somebody express eagerness to try it again, it never fails to be baffling and appalling.
the_only_law 5y ago
I’m remember the Netflix documentary Wild Wild Country in which what effectively was a cult purchased a large plot of land that had been killed by something along the lines of overuse/neglect/etc. and all sorts of people scientists/lawyers/engineers came together and basically resorted it, made it arable and wild life returned. Shame it probably couldn’t happen without the cult aspect.

I'm an undergraduate student and in no financial position to start or join a company. This just further illustrates that a large segment of society is powerless against things like this. The headlines don't help, they just actively worsen my mental health.

CalRobert 5y ago
If I might ask - how are you not in a position to join a company? Is getting a job not a normal thing to do when you're in a rough spot financially? Climate.careers might be worth a look (I'm not affiliated, just keeping an eye on it myself)
- quenix 5y ago
  Thanks for the link.
FabHK 5y ago
I'd look at the positive trends. Dire warnings have, in the past, often lead to improvements that prevented the worst outcomes. Fatalism and resignation are not good nor helpful for you as an individual, nor for society as a whole (they also forestall meaningful corrective action). The fact is that large trends have mostly pointed in the right direction over the last century or so, on a worldwide scale. (Examples: [1]-[17]) Some literature I'd look at as counterpoints: - Steve Pinker, Enlightenment Now [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enlightenment_Now https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enlightenment_Now] - Matt Ridley, The Rational Optimist [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rational_Optimist https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rational_Optimist] - Hans Rosling, Factfulness: Ten Reasons We're Wrong About the World – and Why Things Are Better Than You Think [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factfulness:_Ten_Reasons_We%27re_Wrong_About_the_World_–_and_Why_Things_Are_Better_Than_You_Think https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factfulness:_Ten_Reasons_We%27...] - Julian Simon, The State of Humanity Note: Some of these writers and arguments are co-opted by rabid libertarians or ideologues that argue that all is well, there is nothing to worry about, and nothing needs to be done (and certainly no government regulation of business) [N1]. That is nonsense, and not a position I advocate. There are many worrisome trends, and we have to do something about them. But, there have been predictions of doom since the dawn of mankind (see: Malthus [D1], Ehrlich [D2]), and they have not panned out, either. Conclusion/TL;DR: Things have largely gotten better for humanity over long timeframes. There are still many problems now (inequality, climate, etc.), but if we apply ourselves, there is a good chance we can tackle them. Footnotes [1] Life Expectancy [https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/life-expectancy?tab=chart&time=1770..2019&country=Africa~Asia~Europe~OWID_WRL~Americas~Oceania https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/life-expectancy?tab=chart...] [2] HDI [https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/human-development-index-escosura https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/human-development-index-e...] [3] Child Mortality [https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/child-mortality?tab=chart https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/child-mortality?tab=chart] [4] Suicide rates (not improving, but not worsening) [https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/suicide-rates-by-country https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/suicide-rates-by-country] [5] Air pollution [https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/death-rates-from-air-pollution?country=~OWID_WRL https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/death-rates-from-air-poll...] [6] Polio [https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/number-of-estimated-paralytic-polio-cases-by-world-region https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/number-of-estimated-paral...] [7] Cholera [https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/cholera-deaths-in-great-britain https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/cholera-deaths-in-great-b...] [8] Tuberculosis, Malaria, HIV/Aids [https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/deaths-from-infections-of-currently-noneradicable-diseases?country=~OWID_WRL https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/deaths-from-infections-of...] [9] Anemia in children [https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/prevalence-of-anemia-in-children https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/prevalence-of-anemia-in-c...] [10] Access to electricity [https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/share-of-the-population-with-access-to-electricity?tab=chart https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/share-of-the-population-w...] [11] Death from indoor air pollution [https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/death-rate-by-source-from-indoor-air-pollution?tab=chart https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/death-rate-by-source-from...] [12] Death from unsafe sanitation [https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/share-deaths-unsafe-sanitation?tab=chart https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/share-deaths-unsafe-sanit...] [https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/death-rates-sanitation?tab=chart https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/death-rates-sanitation?ta...] [13] Share of people who say they're happy [https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/share-of-people-who-say-they-are-happy https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/share-of-people-who-say-t...] [14] Use of agricultural land per capita [https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/agricultural-area-per-capita https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/agricultural-area-per-cap...] [15] Forests [https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/forest-area-as-share-of-land-area?tab=chart&time=earliest..latest&country=England~Scotland~FRA~USA https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/forest-area-as-share-of-l...] [16] Famine [https://ourworldindata.org/famine-mortality-over-the-long-run https://ourworldindata.org/famine-mortality-over-the-long-ru...] [17] Child labour [https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/various-measures-of-child-labour-incidence https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/various-measures-of-child...] [https://ourworldindata.org/child-labor#long-run-history-of-child-labour-in-today-s-rich-countries https://ourworldindata.org/child-labor#long-run-history-of-c...] [N1] Julian Simon himself was one of those over-optimistic libertarians. But the data he collected is still eye-opening. [D1] Malthus: "This constant effort as constantly tends to subject the lower classes of the society to distress and to prevent any great permanent amelioration of their condition." [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Essay_on_the_Principle_of_Population https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Essay_on_the_Principle_of_P...] [D2] Ehrlich, in 1968: "The battle to feed all of humanity is over. In the 1970s hundreds of millions of people will starve to death in spite of any crash programs embarked upon now. At this late date nothing can prevent a substantial increase in the world death rate." [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Population_Bomb https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Population_Bomb] But a UN report in 2010: 'the percentage of the world's population who qualify as "undernourished" has fallen by more than half, from 33 percent to about 16 percent, since Ehrlich published The Population Bomb.' See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon–Ehrlich_wager https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon–Ehrlich_wager

wayoutthere 5y ago

This is basically what “communism” is. And I do think communism is the only answer for a world facing a lifetime of declining resources and productivity. Capitalism is great for a world based in perpetual growth but under long-term deflationary pressure it will deliver a worse quality of life and be more oppressive than a more collective form of government (and it must be violently oppressive to keep the mass of starving people from threatening the meager profits that will remain). You’re already seeing this in the younger millennials and Gen Z. We’re smart enough to see what’s coming and more of us are radicalizing every day.

inpdx 5y ago
Unfortunately communism is horrible for individual privacy, liberty, and often life everywhere it's been tried, because humans suck.
- _jal 5y ago
  I seriously doubt governments emerging from ecological collapse will be as pleasant as one of the 20th century eastern-euro communist governments you're probably thinking of. Surveillance today is already more all-encompassing in democracies than it was in Eastern Germany. Just wait for an emergency that scares people enough, and that becomes weaponized. Individual rights don't last in emergencies.
- wayoutthere 5y ago
  If you think communism is bad, wait until you see long-term deflation under capitalism.
- l-_l-_l-_lo_ol 5y ago
  Yeah. It just doesn't cohere with human nature. Capitalism at least manages. Communism seems like something that would happen maybe post-singularity and after scarcity is solved. And we'd be like homogenous spacefarers like the aliens depicted in our stories.
dead-snake 5y ago
Do any of the hundred million murders done in the name of communism give you pause? The stupa of bones and skulls in the killing fields, the pieces of bone and cloth scraps still gradually working their way to the surface, all these years later? No matter how many times I see somebody express eagerness to try it again, it never fails to be baffling and appalling.

the_only_law 5y ago

I’m remember the Netflix documentary Wild Wild Country in which what effectively was a cult purchased a large plot of land that had been killed by something along the lines of overuse/neglect/etc. and all sorts of people scientists/lawyers/engineers came together and basically resorted it, made it arable and wild life returned. Shame it probably couldn’t happen without the cult aspect.