6 ms·

Talking about this with non-tech people might make the distrust in anything they don’t understand worse. Think vaccines.

u4ria 5y ago
Theory of Vaccines is simple. They want you to outsource all your immunity to big pharma. Just like when they took away your guns, and made you outsource your self defence to government. Just like when they outsourced your critical thinking to fact checkers. You are no good on your own. Submit to us and pay us, and we will make you good.
faeyanpiraat 5y ago
Yes, most people are not good at persuasion, and a generic mention of the fact may be harmful as you say.
cle 5y ago
Intentionally deceiving people is probably not a good strategy for building their trust.
crocodiletears 5y ago
Refusing to acknowledge egregious top-down decisions which threaten or violate either one's well-being or some perceived fundamental right has a much worse effect on public trust. "Why didn't you tell me this was going on?" "You're simply too stupid to handle the idea that your betters might occasionally be untrustworthy"
- zepto 5y ago
  How are you going to argue that it’s bad for parents to be informed when strangers send sexual imagery to their children?
  - crocodiletears 5y ago
    You argue the applications of the technology further down the line. Remind them how facebook's safety features turned into tools for censorship.
    - zepto 5y ago
      Can you think of a time when that kind of argument has ever worked? I remind you that people made that argument about Facebook and it didn’t.
      - crocodiletears 5y ago
        Raising awareness won't stop any of this. It's inevitable. We have the technological capacity and institutional interest required to implement it, it will be done, and it will be endemic. Raising awareness is about letting people know so that they might take the necessary precautions if they consider themselves to be at risk of its abuse, and degrades their faith in the institutions that support it.
        zepto 5y ago
        It doesn’t matter whether they are aware. They can’t take precautions. There are no technical solutions that people can use, and technologists seem to be uninterested in working on them. Apple’s solution is the best on offer. Raising awareness about Facebook’s problems hasn’t harmed Facebook.
        crocodiletears 5y ago
        They can take precautions by not using iOS devices. The goal isn't to harm Apple, it's to make the knowledge available to those who need it, and have the will to avoid it. That could mean anything from watching what they put on their iPhone, to putting them down the track of using degoogled android variants on select phones, to ditching cell phones all together depending on their needs. Knowing that your phone is watching, reporting, and potentially moderating the content in it is information which is valuable in and of itself. Even if it only has utility to a fraction of the population. We find ourselves in the tightening noose of a latent authoritarian technocratic surveillance society. Few people have anything to fear from it, or the resources to escape it. But some do, and should be given every piece of information that might help them moderate or escape it.
forcry 5y ago
Theory of Vaccines is simple. They want you to outsource all your immunity to big pharma. Just like when they took away your guns, and made you outsource your self defence to government. Just like when they outsourced your critical thinking to fact checkers. You are no good on your own. Submit to us and pay us, and we will make you good. You are nothing, your immune system is useless, your guns don't fire true, your logic is not sound, without us.
- jazzyjackson 5y ago
  When did they take away my guns? I must have my missed that town hall.
bombcar 5y ago
"See what Apple is doing is basically vaccinating your iPhone against child porn. That's bad because there's the possibility of side effects, though rare, and you should have the decision yourself as to whether you vaccinate your phone." Wait, no, that's not the argument ...

u4ria 5y ago

Theory of Vaccines is simple. They want you to outsource all your immunity to big pharma. Just like when they took away your guns, and made you outsource your self defence to government. Just like when they outsourced your critical thinking to fact checkers. You are no good on your own. Submit to us and pay us, and we will make you good.

faeyanpiraat 5y ago

Yes, most people are not good at persuasion, and a generic mention of the fact may be harmful as you say.

cle 5y ago

Intentionally deceiving people is probably not a good strategy for building their trust.

crocodiletears 5y ago

Refusing to acknowledge egregious top-down decisions which threaten or violate either one's well-being or some perceived fundamental right has a much worse effect on public trust. "Why didn't you tell me this was going on?" "You're simply too stupid to handle the idea that your betters might occasionally be untrustworthy"

zepto 5y ago
How are you going to argue that it’s bad for parents to be informed when strangers send sexual imagery to their children?
- crocodiletears 5y ago
  You argue the applications of the technology further down the line. Remind them how facebook's safety features turned into tools for censorship.
  - zepto 5y ago
    Can you think of a time when that kind of argument has ever worked? I remind you that people made that argument about Facebook and it didn’t.
    - crocodiletears 5y ago
      Raising awareness won't stop any of this. It's inevitable. We have the technological capacity and institutional interest required to implement it, it will be done, and it will be endemic. Raising awareness is about letting people know so that they might take the necessary precautions if they consider themselves to be at risk of its abuse, and degrades their faith in the institutions that support it.
      - zepto 5y ago
        It doesn’t matter whether they are aware. They can’t take precautions. There are no technical solutions that people can use, and technologists seem to be uninterested in working on them. Apple’s solution is the best on offer. Raising awareness about Facebook’s problems hasn’t harmed Facebook.
        crocodiletears 5y ago
        They can take precautions by not using iOS devices. The goal isn't to harm Apple, it's to make the knowledge available to those who need it, and have the will to avoid it. That could mean anything from watching what they put on their iPhone, to putting them down the track of using degoogled android variants on select phones, to ditching cell phones all together depending on their needs. Knowing that your phone is watching, reporting, and potentially moderating the content in it is information which is valuable in and of itself. Even if it only has utility to a fraction of the population. We find ourselves in the tightening noose of a latent authoritarian technocratic surveillance society. Few people have anything to fear from it, or the resources to escape it. But some do, and should be given every piece of information that might help them moderate or escape it.

forcry 5y ago

jazzyjackson 5y ago
When did they take away my guns? I must have my missed that town hall.

bombcar 5y ago

"See what Apple is doing is basically vaccinating your iPhone against child porn. That's bad because there's the possibility of side effects, though rare, and you should have the decision yourself as to whether you vaccinate your phone." Wait, no, that's not the argument ...