6 ms·

"islamic guys, extreme right guys and incels all share a bunch of misogyny and violence" Water is wet but its a "groundbraking research"

by mam3 5y ago

xiphias2 5y ago
I was involuntary celibate until I was 23 (16 years ago): I was very good at math and science, but I wasn't able to make relationships with women. Still, I was very far from being a violent person (even though I was very frustrated because of my lack of ability to connect with other people), in fact whenever I was in a threat, I ran away, and never started a fight. It's very dangerous to put incels (a third of young American men) in the same group as extremists. https://www.inverse.com/mind-body/young-american-men-are-having-less-sex https://www.inverse.com/mind-body/young-american-men-are-hav...
- reverend_gonzo 5y ago
  There is a big difference between those you are involuntarily celibate because they lack the social skills and those who identify with the incel subculture. The culture, at its base, is toxic to humanity.
  - xiphias2 5y ago
    I agree, but the parent comment wrote incels, and not those who identify with the incel subculture that creates lots of lies. HN is great, because it attracts people who understand different meanings of the same word, but much of media tries to wash them together.
- xupybd 5y ago
  Yeah I don't understand why incels are seen as evil. Young men that have limited success with women don't always hate women they long for a deep meaningful relationship like everyone else. Most will never turn violent. I get that it's bad for society to have large numbers of incels but it weird how unsuccessful men are now assumed to be woman haters.
- sascha_sl 5y ago
  Incels by definitions and incels as subculture are adjacent, but not really the same. Also, your article says little about the involuntary part. Considering newfound visibility for asexuality, I'd not be shocked to find a substantial number of people in that third simply don't care for sex.
  - Zababa 5y ago
    Only a small minority of people are asexual. I'd be shocked if a substantial part of that third of people are asexual.
- BoxOfRain 5y ago
  I think there's a difference between an incel and someone who's simply lacking success in relationships. For a start thanks to coronavirus and lockdowns there's a lot of otherwise totally well-adjusted people who would be put unfairly into that category, and secondly I'd categorise incels as people who specifically make their lack of romantic success part of their emotional identity. This is unsurprisingly a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy as people who do that tend to have pretty insufferable personalities as a result. Instead of working to improve their attractiveness they tend to fall into this nihilistic belief system where all the blame is placed on external factors (usually women) and there's nothing they can do personally to improve their lot in life. Everyone has dry spells, sometimes even quite extended ones. That's perfectly normal until you start adopting this as part of your personality and taking this frustration out on the world around you. Incels who self-identify as such often have a somewhat organised and deeply revolting ideology too, whereas "people who've not got laid in a while" is a set that nearly everyone has been part of at one point or another so isn't a marker of anything specific.
  - Zababa 5y ago
    > Everyone has dry spells, sometimes even quite extended ones. That's perfectly normal until you start adopting this as part of your personality and taking this frustration out on the world around you. I think you underestimate the difference between having a dry spell and never having had any relationship ever when you're in your 20s, and the mental toll of the second situation. For sure it's a really bad idea to direct that frustration to other people, but the frustration is here and is very real. It's a bit like the difference between a period of low mood and depression. These people are not mentally healthy and need help.
  - xiphias2 5y ago
    I agree with all of what you wrote (I also had insufferable personality in my past, and I'm really sorry for that). It's just that most of these people are lost in their bad habits (video gaming / drinking / getting overweight). But they are usually not violent people (except of the few people with grave mental illnesses who started shooting other people because of their frustration, and people who were cheering for it...that was very sad). BTW: for controlling weight, I'm right now using Dexcom G6 continuous blood glucose meter with a High setting of 9.0 mmol/L. It worked wonders for my parents (they are losing 1.5kg / month using it, both are 70 years old).

"islamic guys, extreme right guys and incels all share a bunch of misogyny and violence" Water is wet but its a "groundbraking research"

by mam3 5y ago

"islamic guys, extreme right guys and incels all share a bunch of misogyny and violence" Water is wet but its a "groundbraking research"

xiphias2 5y ago

I was involuntary celibate until I was 23 (16 years ago): I was very good at math and science, but I wasn't able to make relationships with women. Still, I was very far from being a violent person (even though I was very frustrated because of my lack of ability to connect with other people), in fact whenever I was in a threat, I ran away, and never started a fight. It's very dangerous to put incels (a third of young American men) in the same group as extremists. https://www.inverse.com/mind-body/young-american-men-are-having-less-sex https://www.inverse.com/mind-body/young-american-men-are-hav...

reverend_gonzo 5y ago
There is a big difference between those you are involuntarily celibate because they lack the social skills and those who identify with the incel subculture. The culture, at its base, is toxic to humanity.
- xiphias2 5y ago
  I agree, but the parent comment wrote incels, and not those who identify with the incel subculture that creates lots of lies. HN is great, because it attracts people who understand different meanings of the same word, but much of media tries to wash them together.
xupybd 5y ago
Yeah I don't understand why incels are seen as evil. Young men that have limited success with women don't always hate women they long for a deep meaningful relationship like everyone else. Most will never turn violent. I get that it's bad for society to have large numbers of incels but it weird how unsuccessful men are now assumed to be woman haters.
sascha_sl 5y ago
Incels by definitions and incels as subculture are adjacent, but not really the same. Also, your article says little about the involuntary part. Considering newfound visibility for asexuality, I'd not be shocked to find a substantial number of people in that third simply don't care for sex.
- Zababa 5y ago
  Only a small minority of people are asexual. I'd be shocked if a substantial part of that third of people are asexual.
BoxOfRain 5y ago
I think there's a difference between an incel and someone who's simply lacking success in relationships. For a start thanks to coronavirus and lockdowns there's a lot of otherwise totally well-adjusted people who would be put unfairly into that category, and secondly I'd categorise incels as people who specifically make their lack of romantic success part of their emotional identity. This is unsurprisingly a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy as people who do that tend to have pretty insufferable personalities as a result. Instead of working to improve their attractiveness they tend to fall into this nihilistic belief system where all the blame is placed on external factors (usually women) and there's nothing they can do personally to improve their lot in life. Everyone has dry spells, sometimes even quite extended ones. That's perfectly normal until you start adopting this as part of your personality and taking this frustration out on the world around you. Incels who self-identify as such often have a somewhat organised and deeply revolting ideology too, whereas "people who've not got laid in a while" is a set that nearly everyone has been part of at one point or another so isn't a marker of anything specific.
- Zababa 5y ago
  > Everyone has dry spells, sometimes even quite extended ones. That's perfectly normal until you start adopting this as part of your personality and taking this frustration out on the world around you. I think you underestimate the difference between having a dry spell and never having had any relationship ever when you're in your 20s, and the mental toll of the second situation. For sure it's a really bad idea to direct that frustration to other people, but the frustration is here and is very real. It's a bit like the difference between a period of low mood and depression. These people are not mentally healthy and need help.
- xiphias2 5y ago
  I agree with all of what you wrote (I also had insufferable personality in my past, and I'm really sorry for that). It's just that most of these people are lost in their bad habits (video gaming / drinking / getting overweight). But they are usually not violent people (except of the few people with grave mental illnesses who started shooting other people because of their frustration, and people who were cheering for it...that was very sad). BTW: for controlling weight, I'm right now using Dexcom G6 continuous blood glucose meter with a High setting of 9.0 mmol/L. It worked wonders for my parents (they are losing 1.5kg / month using it, both are 70 years old).