4 ms·

> Nobody's stopping you. Immigration discourages westerners from reproducing. Immigrants drive up housing costs, lower wages, and increase competition for scho

> Nobody's stopping you. Immigration discourages westerners from reproducing. Immigrants drive up housing costs, lower wages, and increase competition for school spots and good neighborhoods. All this makes family formation a more daunting proposition for people who aspire to maintain a middle class standard of living. Western and East Asian birth rates probably reflect collective decisions that the lands are full. To respond by opening the borders to millions of foreigners makes no sense.

Vivtek 15y ago
I am having a really, really hard time not going ad-hominem on this, but ... I think you're wrong. Home buyers drive up housing costs, which is generally considered a good thing - and mortgage bankers drive up costs way more than immigrants, and the people selling those houses really don't complain. Employers drive down wages, which is called "productivity", although I'm sure they'd like you to believe immigrants are at fault. Children increase competition for school spots - although their parents help pay for more school spots, so it typically works out well. Western and East Asian birth rates reflect collective decisions that people have better things to do than have a bunch of kids. If you have a wife, she may understand this better than you do. (Apologies if you yourself are female.) Puerto Rico is more full than Europe (it surprised me to learn this, too) - but poor, mostly. The birth rate is still quite high there. This alone probably doesn't refute your argument, but I hope it at least makes you think a little. All in all, though, you seem to be saying that immigrants are at fault for economics working the way it does. I think you need to ask yourself, really carefully, who benefits when you ascribe these things to immigration.

4 ms·

> Nobody's stopping you. Immigration discourages westerners from reproducing. Immigrants drive up housing costs, lower wages, and increase competition for scho

by rubashov 15y ago

Vivtek 15y ago
I am having a really, really hard time not going ad-hominem on this, but ... I think you're wrong. Home buyers drive up housing costs, which is generally considered a good thing - and mortgage bankers drive up costs way more than immigrants, and the people selling those houses really don't complain. Employers drive down wages, which is called "productivity", although I'm sure they'd like you to believe immigrants are at fault. Children increase competition for school spots - although their parents help pay for more school spots, so it typically works out well. Western and East Asian birth rates reflect collective decisions that people have better things to do than have a bunch of kids. If you have a wife, she may understand this better than you do. (Apologies if you yourself are female.) Puerto Rico is more full than Europe (it surprised me to learn this, too) - but poor, mostly. The birth rate is still quite high there. This alone probably doesn't refute your argument, but I hope it at least makes you think a little. All in all, though, you seem to be saying that immigrants are at fault for economics working the way it does. I think you need to ask yourself, really carefully, who benefits when you ascribe these things to immigration.