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I switched to an iphone about a year and half ago and I’m feeling it too. My current plan is to switch to a lineageOS device. Apple has completely run off the r

by jjcon 5y ago

I switched to an iphone about a year and half ago and I’m feeling it too. My current plan is to switch to a lineageOS device. Apple has completely run off the rails in the past year, from aggressive politicking to now complete abandonment of their core values. I didn’t even realize apple had the ability to do something like this? Can someone explain how this is even possible for them to do? This wasn’t an update was it? Just a flipped switch?

weikju 5y ago
They write the OS that runs on your iPhone, so of course they have the ability to do this or anything else.
- jjcon 5y ago
  But without an update to the os or even an app on the os, how are they able to make this change? I’m not in this space but id love to understand the technicals here, especially the ramifications for, ‘what else are they capable of doing without my permission?’
  - unionpivo 5y ago
    They can force update your phone, so pretty much anything they want. This means they can intercept even e2e encrypted messages such as signal, if they wanted. When you control kernel, you can do anything, to anything running on that system.
    - m4rtink 5y ago
      That's the issue - apple devices run an opaque blob signed by the entity developing it which is also is in possession of the source code which it does not share with anyone, so users can't inspect it to see what it actually does. For comparison in a Linux distro: - everything is built from source on distro infrastructure, users can inspect any an all source code of everything running on their machine - software updates are transparent and not enforced, user can read changelog or compare source code of the updates - software updates of individual packages don't usually go directly from upstream open source software developers but via a package maintainer in the distro, for each distro - if an upstream project introduced fishy stuff like Apple is doing would almost certainly be noticed by either one of the package maintainers or users due to changes in the source or in software behavior, alerting others to do source code analysis and stop the attempt from affecting users
  - weikju 5y ago
    Ah, thanks for clarifying the question, and it's a really good one, and I haven't seen the answer to that. I'm guessing it would have been part of one recent update to the OS, and the feature then gets enabled on a certain date or remotely or something like that. And your final question "What else are they capable of doing without my permission?" --- the answer is anything they want. Concretely, what are the capabilities installed NOW that they can take advantage of, who knows exactly? As an example, I do remember a looong time ago Google remotely removed apps from Android phones, pretty sure Apple could or might even have done so as well.
    - roblabla 5y ago
      Apple has the ability to do so[0]. I believe they have used it against malware in the past, but finding articles is proving to be complex. Another solution for apple is to simply revoke the codesigning certificate that is used to sign the app, which will render the application un-runnable. [0]: https://www.macrumors.com/2008/08/06/apples-ability-to-deactivate-malicious-app-store-apps/ https://www.macrumors.com/2008/08/06/apples-ability-to-deact...
  - rst 5y ago
    The change is scheduled to ship with an OS update (iOS 15): https://www.macrumors.com/2021/08/05/apple-new-child-safety-features/ https://www.macrumors.com/2021/08/05/apple-new-child-safety-... Nothing technical prevents them from putting something in ring zero which does silent updates without announcing them, but that's not what's happening here.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
robotcookies 5y ago
Privacy was never a "core value" at Apple. Have people forgot about Prism? During that, Apple bent over backward to give data to the nsa. Other companies like yahoo sued to try preventing it. Privacy is a marketing tactic at apple they used when they realized it could be used against their competitors like Google who have business models based on knowing as much as possible about their consumers.

by jjcon 5y ago

weikju 5y ago

They write the OS that runs on your iPhone, so of course they have the ability to do this or anything else.

jjcon 5y ago
But without an update to the os or even an app on the os, how are they able to make this change? I’m not in this space but id love to understand the technicals here, especially the ramifications for, ‘what else are they capable of doing without my permission?’
- unionpivo 5y ago
  They can force update your phone, so pretty much anything they want. This means they can intercept even e2e encrypted messages such as signal, if they wanted. When you control kernel, you can do anything, to anything running on that system.
  - m4rtink 5y ago
    That's the issue - apple devices run an opaque blob signed by the entity developing it which is also is in possession of the source code which it does not share with anyone, so users can't inspect it to see what it actually does. For comparison in a Linux distro: - everything is built from source on distro infrastructure, users can inspect any an all source code of everything running on their machine - software updates are transparent and not enforced, user can read changelog or compare source code of the updates - software updates of individual packages don't usually go directly from upstream open source software developers but via a package maintainer in the distro, for each distro - if an upstream project introduced fishy stuff like Apple is doing would almost certainly be noticed by either one of the package maintainers or users due to changes in the source or in software behavior, alerting others to do source code analysis and stop the attempt from affecting users
- weikju 5y ago
  Ah, thanks for clarifying the question, and it's a really good one, and I haven't seen the answer to that. I'm guessing it would have been part of one recent update to the OS, and the feature then gets enabled on a certain date or remotely or something like that. And your final question "What else are they capable of doing without my permission?" --- the answer is anything they want. Concretely, what are the capabilities installed NOW that they can take advantage of, who knows exactly? As an example, I do remember a looong time ago Google remotely removed apps from Android phones, pretty sure Apple could or might even have done so as well.
  - roblabla 5y ago
    Apple has the ability to do so[0]. I believe they have used it against malware in the past, but finding articles is proving to be complex. Another solution for apple is to simply revoke the codesigning certificate that is used to sign the app, which will render the application un-runnable. [0]: https://www.macrumors.com/2008/08/06/apples-ability-to-deactivate-malicious-app-store-apps/ https://www.macrumors.com/2008/08/06/apples-ability-to-deact...
- rst 5y ago
  The change is scheduled to ship with an OS update (iOS 15): https://www.macrumors.com/2021/08/05/apple-new-child-safety-features/ https://www.macrumors.com/2021/08/05/apple-new-child-safety-... Nothing technical prevents them from putting something in ring zero which does silent updates without announcing them, but that's not what's happening here.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

robotcookies 5y ago

Privacy was never a "core value" at Apple. Have people forgot about Prism? During that, Apple bent over backward to give data to the nsa. Other companies like yahoo sued to try preventing it. Privacy is a marketing tactic at apple they used when they realized it could be used against their competitors like Google who have business models based on knowing as much as possible about their consumers.