3 ms·

"No, if you do all of those you're still quite far from carbon neutral." The climate crisis is not because we're not carbon neutral, but because produce so muc

"No, if you do all of those you're still quite far from carbon neutral." The climate crisis is not because we're not carbon neutral, but because produce so much CO2/methane/[..]. Carbon neutral is the wrong concept. Raising cows and eating them can be done carbon neutral, but converting CO2 into methane still leads to a climate crisis. Humanity hasn't been carbon neutral for at least 5000 years, not being carbon neutral is not the problem.

adrianN 5y ago
No, you're wrong. Not being carbon neutral is the problem. Global warming is proportional to the amount of GHG is the atmosphere. A good fraction of the CO2 once emitted (and Methane once oxidized back to CO2) stays in the atmosphere for thousands of years and traps heat until geological processes sequester it. We probably could go back to 17-th century amounts of coal burning and still run into a climate crisis eventually. It would just take much longer than at current rates of emission.
- KingOfCoders 5y ago
  No you are wrong, humanity hasn't been carbon neutral for 5000 years at least.
  - adrianN 5y ago
    I don't claim that humanity has been carbon neutral. I claim that we have to become carbon neutral to stop heating up the planet.
    - jacquesm 5y ago
      We may have to do a lot better than that for a while to stop the clock, there are some nice positive feedback loops in there.
  - loopz 5y ago
    CO2 and temperature have been in the same stable envelope since past 10 000 years and rise of civilization, until around 1980's.
    - KingOfCoders 5y ago
      Yes, and from around 3000BC to 1980 humanity has not been carbon neutral.
      - adrianN 5y ago
        And atmospheric carbon dioxide has been creeping up very slowly for the last few thousand years until the industrial revolution where the chart really took off as both carbon-per-capita and population started growing quickly: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/96/CO2_40k.png https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/96/CO2_40k....
0xdeadb00f 5y ago
> The climate crisis is not because we're not carbon neutral, but because produce so much CO2/methane/[..]. Precisely. And who pumps out the majority of those gasses? The companies incentivised by capital to continue doing so! I think people need to eat less meat. So I agree with you there. In fact I agree with pretty much everything you listed in your other comment. But.. Doing all of that will not stop the companies that are actually destroying the environment. They will continue to do so unaffected by our personal choices, as long as they're being paid to turn our lights on. Putting the burden on the individual to change their life is ridiculous when there are things out of people's control.

adrianN 5y ago

No, you're wrong. Not being carbon neutral is the problem. Global warming is proportional to the amount of GHG is the atmosphere. A good fraction of the CO2 once emitted (and Methane once oxidized back to CO2) stays in the atmosphere for thousands of years and traps heat until geological processes sequester it. We probably could go back to 17-th century amounts of coal burning and still run into a climate crisis eventually. It would just take much longer than at current rates of emission.

KingOfCoders 5y ago
No you are wrong, humanity hasn't been carbon neutral for 5000 years at least.
- adrianN 5y ago
  I don't claim that humanity has been carbon neutral. I claim that we have to become carbon neutral to stop heating up the planet.
  - jacquesm 5y ago
    We may have to do a lot better than that for a while to stop the clock, there are some nice positive feedback loops in there.
- loopz 5y ago
  CO2 and temperature have been in the same stable envelope since past 10 000 years and rise of civilization, until around 1980's.
  - KingOfCoders 5y ago
    Yes, and from around 3000BC to 1980 humanity has not been carbon neutral.
    - adrianN 5y ago
      And atmospheric carbon dioxide has been creeping up very slowly for the last few thousand years until the industrial revolution where the chart really took off as both carbon-per-capita and population started growing quickly: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/96/CO2_40k.png https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/96/CO2_40k....

0xdeadb00f 5y ago

> The climate crisis is not because we're not carbon neutral, but because produce so much CO2/methane/[..]. Precisely. And who pumps out the majority of those gasses? The companies incentivised by capital to continue doing so! I think people need to eat less meat. So I agree with you there. In fact I agree with pretty much everything you listed in your other comment. But.. Doing all of that will not stop the companies that are actually destroying the environment. They will continue to do so unaffected by our personal choices, as long as they're being paid to turn our lights on. Putting the burden on the individual to change their life is ridiculous when there are things out of people's control.