4 ms·

> lets say a chocolate bar contains 80% chocolate and 20% food wax. A year later it contains 70% chocolate and 30% food wax Is there any evidence that this hap

by NavinF 5y ago

> lets say a chocolate bar contains 80% chocolate and 20% food wax. A year later it contains 70% chocolate and 30% food wax Is there any evidence that this happens often enough to affect CPI? btw in the few cases where I've seen the concentration of tasty ingredients go down, it was clearly done so they could advertise the new version as "low-calorie" or "healthy". Consumers get what they demand.

KozmoNau7 5y ago
The most blatant example I've seen of this was canned coconut milk. The standard product was 70% coconut and 30% water, the "light" and "calorie reduced" version right next to it was literally just 50/50 coconut/water, at the same price. Why yes, please sell me water at coconut prices! /s
yodelshady 5y ago
> Is there any evidence that this happens often enough to affect CPI? Systematised evidence? No, but that's the complaint. It's a reasonable enough idea, so it's reasonable to expect a professional, funded body to do the accounting.
simonh 5y ago
There are several known flaws in CPI calculation like this, but not all of the ones being touted in this discussion: First of all CPI only tracks basic commodity goods like bread, milk, coffee, etc as a proxy for the basic cost of living. It doesn't track complex or premium products like frozen burritos. It tracks the quantity of these products people actually buy and their cost per quantity, so reductions in the size of chocolate bars or amount of cereal in packets will not fool the CPI. It does not take into account the quality of these products. If people start buying less premium coffee and more store brand coffee, or if manufacturers start putting less cocoa and more fat in chocolate this will not show up in the CPI. The CPI is just one statistic, and should be considered alongside other measures such as consumer buying power and cost of living calculations.
- amrcnimgrnt 5y ago
  Thank you for your comment. I have a follow up question, if you don't mind. I'm not an expert, so is my comment mostly correct? I only brought up CPI to illustrate an example of a widely purchased thing not being included in that particular metric. The rest of the comment, I think, was agnostic to the particular metric used. The point being that what the economic situation an individual or family faces is far more complex than any one metric and the people of a country can become less well off than the metrics reflect.
- def_true_false 5y ago
  If it compares things that are not comparable, it's worse than nothing though. I'm pretty sure, for example, that what's considered normal bread in the US or the UK is completely different from continental Europe. Not a difference in quality, it's literally a different product. Same with yogurt, etc.
denton-scratch 5y ago
Food wax? What is this, and what's it doing in chocolate? Consider seeking out European chocolate. There's no provisiion in the regulations for "wax", and fat not from cocoa-butter is restricted to 5%. And if it uses any non-cocoa fat, that has to be stated on the label, thus: 'contains vegetable fats in addition to cocoa butter'. The 5% allowance was introduced at the urging of the UK, in the face of opposition from countries like France, that don't allow non-cocoa fats at all. Brands like Cadbury (now US-owned) have long used non-cocoa fats (non-milk fats in milk chocolate), and risked being banned from calling the resulting product "chocolate". It seems that importing Cadbury's chocolate from the UK to the US is a trademark infringement; the US (Hershey's) version of Cadbury's is lower quality. Lower than the UK product - and the UK product doesn't meet the highest EU standards. I understand that many USAians actually prefer Hershey's to european-style chocolate; that's OK, I'm sure it's partly just what you're used to. But if you do buy imported european chocolate, the proportion of cocoa solids is at least 20%, and the proportion of non-cocoa fat is restricted to 5% - except in the case of milk chocolate, which can contain milk fat, in which case the product must be named "Family Milk Chocolate". Perhaps one might call this tinkering with composition to save money "composition-flation"? No, I guess not, it doesn't exactly trip off the tongue.
- wil421 5y ago
  Hersey’s is the lowest tier chocolate one could buy beside some off brand imitation or store branded. Godiva (Belgian but owned by a Turkish company) is usually what I see people buy for gifts. It looks like they closed all the US stores this year. Aldi and Trader Joe’s sell great European chocolate. I know the house brands are relabeled but I’m sure they sell other European brands.
  - philsnow 5y ago
    Whole Foods has a variety of international and somewhat better domestic chocolates, but don't use price as any kind of proxy for quality when you're looking at them. I recently ran a dark chocolate tournament for my brother-in-law's birthday, and the two most expensive chocolate won exactly zero one-on-one contests.

by NavinF 5y ago

KozmoNau7 5y ago

The most blatant example I've seen of this was canned coconut milk. The standard product was 70% coconut and 30% water, the "light" and "calorie reduced" version right next to it was literally just 50/50 coconut/water, at the same price. Why yes, please sell me water at coconut prices! /s

yodelshady 5y ago

> Is there any evidence that this happens often enough to affect CPI? Systematised evidence? No, but that's the complaint. It's a reasonable enough idea, so it's reasonable to expect a professional, funded body to do the accounting.

simonh 5y ago

There are several known flaws in CPI calculation like this, but not all of the ones being touted in this discussion: First of all CPI only tracks basic commodity goods like bread, milk, coffee, etc as a proxy for the basic cost of living. It doesn't track complex or premium products like frozen burritos. It tracks the quantity of these products people actually buy and their cost per quantity, so reductions in the size of chocolate bars or amount of cereal in packets will not fool the CPI. It does not take into account the quality of these products. If people start buying less premium coffee and more store brand coffee, or if manufacturers start putting less cocoa and more fat in chocolate this will not show up in the CPI. The CPI is just one statistic, and should be considered alongside other measures such as consumer buying power and cost of living calculations.

amrcnimgrnt 5y ago
Thank you for your comment. I have a follow up question, if you don't mind. I'm not an expert, so is my comment mostly correct? I only brought up CPI to illustrate an example of a widely purchased thing not being included in that particular metric. The rest of the comment, I think, was agnostic to the particular metric used. The point being that what the economic situation an individual or family faces is far more complex than any one metric and the people of a country can become less well off than the metrics reflect.
def_true_false 5y ago
If it compares things that are not comparable, it's worse than nothing though. I'm pretty sure, for example, that what's considered normal bread in the US or the UK is completely different from continental Europe. Not a difference in quality, it's literally a different product. Same with yogurt, etc.

denton-scratch 5y ago

Food wax? What is this, and what's it doing in chocolate? Consider seeking out European chocolate. There's no provisiion in the regulations for "wax", and fat not from cocoa-butter is restricted to 5%. And if it uses any non-cocoa fat, that has to be stated on the label, thus: 'contains vegetable fats in addition to cocoa butter'. The 5% allowance was introduced at the urging of the UK, in the face of opposition from countries like France, that don't allow non-cocoa fats at all. Brands like Cadbury (now US-owned) have long used non-cocoa fats (non-milk fats in milk chocolate), and risked being banned from calling the resulting product "chocolate". It seems that importing Cadbury's chocolate from the UK to the US is a trademark infringement; the US (Hershey's) version of Cadbury's is lower quality. Lower than the UK product - and the UK product doesn't meet the highest EU standards. I understand that many USAians actually prefer Hershey's to european-style chocolate; that's OK, I'm sure it's partly just what you're used to. But if you do buy imported european chocolate, the proportion of cocoa solids is at least 20%, and the proportion of non-cocoa fat is restricted to 5% - except in the case of milk chocolate, which can contain milk fat, in which case the product must be named "Family Milk Chocolate". Perhaps one might call this tinkering with composition to save money "composition-flation"? No, I guess not, it doesn't exactly trip off the tongue.

wil421 5y ago
Hersey’s is the lowest tier chocolate one could buy beside some off brand imitation or store branded. Godiva (Belgian but owned by a Turkish company) is usually what I see people buy for gifts. It looks like they closed all the US stores this year. Aldi and Trader Joe’s sell great European chocolate. I know the house brands are relabeled but I’m sure they sell other European brands.
- philsnow 5y ago
  Whole Foods has a variety of international and somewhat better domestic chocolates, but don't use price as any kind of proxy for quality when you're looking at them. I recently ran a dark chocolate tournament for my brother-in-law's birthday, and the two most expensive chocolate won exactly zero one-on-one contests.