5 ms·

This is a legitimate concern. What we do is monitor the outdoor air quality, open the windows when it's good, close them when it's bad, and skip the air filters

This is a legitimate concern. What we do is monitor the outdoor air quality, open the windows when it's good, close them when it's bad, and skip the air filters inside unless indoor air quality is measured to be bad. Which only happens during wildfires as our house is modern and pretty well sealed. Once our children are past the age of 10 or so we will probably go back to running air filters all the time. But the early years are crucial for immune system development and lack of exposure to the natural environment in early years is likely to be one of the biggest reasons for the rise in allergic diseases. Oh, and stop using gas appliances indoors.

colechristensen 5y ago
>Oh, and stop using gas appliances indoors. If you get a particle meter you quickly learn that the biggest source of particulate isn't gas but cooking (and especially lightly burning) food. The slightest smell of smoke means your home is going to be like (insert terrible air quality city) for a few minutes to a few hours depending on filtration. One of the worst sources of this is the fact that so few places have real vent fans above cooking surfaces (the sucking through the microwave business does essentially nothing).
- groby_b 5y ago
  It depends... some microwaves are a) connected to an actual vent and b) have decent suction. However, they cost a sizeable chunk more than the cheap shit you find in rentals. (In SV, that cheap shit is looking spiffy, but it's still cheap shit. If it says Frigidaire, you know it's not exactly high end)
  - colechristensen 5y ago
    I guess I have never encountered a microwave that was actually vented outside. Even so, a real hood would be much preferable.
    - groby_b 5y ago
      Yep - but it's a space question. (I live in a house from the '40s, I have no idea if people back then were somehow 30% smaller or something, but having a full hood and a microwave is just a fantasy given the available space. One day..)
      - inglor_cz 5y ago
        People were slightly smaller in the '40s, but the main difference is that they had a lot less stuff. Compared to the purchasing power, furniture was more expensive and a vast majority of today's appliances did not exist at all. A typical kitchen had a stove and either an old-fashioned icebox or a fridge, and that was it.
        colechristensen 5y ago
        I noticed some toilets in older houses in the bay area were comically small for me at 6'2" and I as I rule couldn't see my face in mirrors standing up (they were mounted so the tops were about at shoulder level. People from different places around the world are also different sizes (a lot of this has to do with multi-generational semi-inherited nutrition availability)
    - SomaticPirate 5y ago
      This is my only dealbreaker in rentals. I will happily pay more for a unit with a real exhaust fan. Its crazy that we expect them in bathrooms but don’t expect them in kitchens. Health concerns aside, who wants their whole house to smell like fish for hours after cooking.
      - hnick 5y ago
        Mould will damage a house, cooking fumes will only damage the temporary residents. Smells go away by the time someone else moves in. FWIW I think every place I've lived in Australia has had a vented rangehood over the stove, but maybe that is just blind luck.
- modeless 5y ago
  Combustion products from gas stoves are specifically implicated in asthma. Children in houses with gas stoves have asthma at higher rates and the effect is not small. People with electric stoves cook too, but their children get less asthma.
  - nelox 5y ago
    Source?
    - modeless 5y ago
      "Our meta-analyses suggest that children living in a home with gas cooking have a 42% increased risk of having current asthma, a 24% increased risk of lifetime asthma and an overall 32% increased risk of having current and lifetime asthma." https://academic.oup.com/ije/article/42/6/1724/737113 https://academic.oup.com/ije/article/42/6/1724/737113
      - c_o_n_v_e_x 5y ago
        The study is based on exposure to nitrogen dioxide, a by-product of combustion, not particulate exposure. High temps are needed for NOx production, so presumably electric stove tops aren't going to be generating NOx.
        modeless 5y ago
        The study has multiple parts. The part of the study I quoted is not specific to nitrogen dioxide, but a general conclusion about the combined effects of all of the properties of gas stoves. The study does not have enough information to conclude that the effect is entirely or even mostly caused by nitrogen dioxide in particular, or any other single cause. I did not claim that particulates are the cause. The point is that gas stove combustion products are harmful to children and probably everyone.
  - colechristensen 5y ago
    I guess what I have is personal experience measuring things. Maybe people with gas stoves burn their food more because of the higher potential heat?
methyl 5y ago
> our house is modern and pretty well sealed Sounds like you will have excessive CO2 problem. Have you measured that?

colechristensen 5y ago

>Oh, and stop using gas appliances indoors. If you get a particle meter you quickly learn that the biggest source of particulate isn't gas but cooking (and especially lightly burning) food. The slightest smell of smoke means your home is going to be like (insert terrible air quality city) for a few minutes to a few hours depending on filtration. One of the worst sources of this is the fact that so few places have real vent fans above cooking surfaces (the sucking through the microwave business does essentially nothing).

groby_b 5y ago
It depends... some microwaves are a) connected to an actual vent and b) have decent suction. However, they cost a sizeable chunk more than the cheap shit you find in rentals. (In SV, that cheap shit is looking spiffy, but it's still cheap shit. If it says Frigidaire, you know it's not exactly high end)
- colechristensen 5y ago
  I guess I have never encountered a microwave that was actually vented outside. Even so, a real hood would be much preferable.
  - groby_b 5y ago
    Yep - but it's a space question. (I live in a house from the '40s, I have no idea if people back then were somehow 30% smaller or something, but having a full hood and a microwave is just a fantasy given the available space. One day..)
    - inglor_cz 5y ago
      People were slightly smaller in the '40s, but the main difference is that they had a lot less stuff. Compared to the purchasing power, furniture was more expensive and a vast majority of today's appliances did not exist at all. A typical kitchen had a stove and either an old-fashioned icebox or a fridge, and that was it.
      - colechristensen 5y ago
        I noticed some toilets in older houses in the bay area were comically small for me at 6'2" and I as I rule couldn't see my face in mirrors standing up (they were mounted so the tops were about at shoulder level. People from different places around the world are also different sizes (a lot of this has to do with multi-generational semi-inherited nutrition availability)
  - SomaticPirate 5y ago
    This is my only dealbreaker in rentals. I will happily pay more for a unit with a real exhaust fan. Its crazy that we expect them in bathrooms but don’t expect them in kitchens. Health concerns aside, who wants their whole house to smell like fish for hours after cooking.
    - hnick 5y ago
      Mould will damage a house, cooking fumes will only damage the temporary residents. Smells go away by the time someone else moves in. FWIW I think every place I've lived in Australia has had a vented rangehood over the stove, but maybe that is just blind luck.
modeless 5y ago
Combustion products from gas stoves are specifically implicated in asthma. Children in houses with gas stoves have asthma at higher rates and the effect is not small. People with electric stoves cook too, but their children get less asthma.
- nelox 5y ago
  Source?
  - modeless 5y ago
    "Our meta-analyses suggest that children living in a home with gas cooking have a 42% increased risk of having current asthma, a 24% increased risk of lifetime asthma and an overall 32% increased risk of having current and lifetime asthma." https://academic.oup.com/ije/article/42/6/1724/737113 https://academic.oup.com/ije/article/42/6/1724/737113
    - c_o_n_v_e_x 5y ago
      The study is based on exposure to nitrogen dioxide, a by-product of combustion, not particulate exposure. High temps are needed for NOx production, so presumably electric stove tops aren't going to be generating NOx.
      - modeless 5y ago
        The study has multiple parts. The part of the study I quoted is not specific to nitrogen dioxide, but a general conclusion about the combined effects of all of the properties of gas stoves. The study does not have enough information to conclude that the effect is entirely or even mostly caused by nitrogen dioxide in particular, or any other single cause. I did not claim that particulates are the cause. The point is that gas stove combustion products are harmful to children and probably everyone.
- colechristensen 5y ago
  I guess what I have is personal experience measuring things. Maybe people with gas stoves burn their food more because of the higher potential heat?

methyl 5y ago

> our house is modern and pretty well sealed Sounds like you will have excessive CO2 problem. Have you measured that?