6 ms·

> The worst physician's salary averages about $50K more than the best programmer's salary. Nurses get paid as much as programmers I was all primed with a fiery

by saturn 15y ago

> The worst physician's salary averages about $50K more than the best programmer's salary. Nurses get paid as much as programmers I was all primed with a fiery response about how good programmers in hot markets should be pulling more than 200k, lousy markets at least 100k, and anyone who wasn't is either a lousy negotiator or not good, but then I remembered where I was. The crème de la crème. Yeah, "staff programmers" (as I call them) might well earn less, on average, than nurses. And it's a guaranteed, standardised wage, none of this grasping meritocracy competitive nonsense. The thing about programming is that it gives you a chance to shine. I mean really shine. God bless the nurses, etc, but realistically speaking any one nurse is not going to change the world just by being a bloody good nurse. I think the attraction to the high-stakes sink-or-swim pure meritocracy game is a very male thing.

rdouble 15y ago
Even if you shine you don't make as much as a general physician, and you'll never make as much as a dermatologist. If you want to get rich as a programmer you have to attach yourself to a liquidity event or run your own business.
- saturn 15y ago
  Isn't it the case that if you want to get rich as a GP or specialist you have to start your own business, too? Also known as a practise? It is known that you'll never get rich working for someone else, but that applies to all trades and I don't see any reason why starting one as a programmer is dramatically different from starting one as a GP, or a plumber, or any other kind of highly skilled and valuable trade.
  - rdouble 15y ago
    It depends on what you mean by rich. If you want beaucoup dollars (millions) it does help to own the cardiology clinic. However, my dad hires physicians for a rural health care system. A cardiologist in this area can get paid a salary of $350,000 per year, guaranteed three year contract. This is in the middle of nowhere, where a nice house can cost $100K and a king's mansion costs about $400K. That is "rich" by most of the world's standards. The option to throw a dart at a map, move there, and make a $300K+ a year without running a business is simply not available to programmers (or any other profession.)
    - saturn 15y ago
      Bloody hell. I guess I didn't realise they could make quite that much. Yep, that outpays all but the most exceptional programmers all right, I stand corrected.
    - psykotic 15y ago
      Cardiologists are in the upper salary echelons of physicians. If you're a family physician or a pediatrician you probably won't make more than $200,000 per year, which isn't too far out of line with what some programmers make.
      - rdouble 15y ago
        Right, but to make $200K a year as a programmer you have to work at Goldman Sachs or have spent the last 8 years moving up the ranks at VM Ware or be Mark Zuckerburg's college friend. To make $200K a year as a GP you can live anywhere in the USA you want and work part time (which is what my father does).
        psykotic 15y ago
        To make that $200,000 you also have to pour an ungodly amount of time, effort and money into the education system, etc. Once you factor in all the relevant differences the gap is a lot smaller than it appears at first. There are many programmers who earn that kind of salary and don't fit your description of being in finance or climbing the managerial ladder for years on end.
        rdouble 15y ago
        There are many programmers who earn that kind of salary and don't fit your description of being in finance or climbing the managerial ladder for years on end. Who are they and where do they work? I am looking for a job.
        psykotic 15y ago
        Find product companies where top-percentile individual contributors can make a huge difference to the company's bottom line and are renumerated accordingly.
  - cma 15y ago
    "or specialist you have to start your own business, too? Also known as a practise?" The number of practicing dermatologiests strictly limited to an amount determined by a council of dermatologists via the AMA. Programmers have nothing remotely similar.
    - gnaritas 15y ago
      This applies to all doctors, when you can artificially limit your supply, of course salaries are high, you make sure of it. If everyone who was qualified to be a doctor -- i.e. residents who should already be but don't have that magic piece of paper --, was made a doctor automatically after X years of residency, wages would be no higher than programmers.
a3camero 15y ago
Registered nurses at Ontario's public hospitals can make $100k+. http://www.fin.gov.on.ca/en/publications/salarydisclosure/2011/hospit11.html http://www.fin.gov.on.ca/en/publications/salarydisclosure/20.... Paramedics can make $125k+. http://www.fin.gov.on.ca/en/publications/salarydisclosure/2011/otherp11.html http://www.fin.gov.on.ca/en/publications/salarydisclosure/20... Doctors can make $200k+. See both of previously mentioned lists.
Lambent_Cactus 15y ago
Whoa, where are good programmers in hot markets making more than $200k? Is that counting stock compensation, or actual salary? I'm seeing sub-200k salaries for Google, Facebook, and Microsoft. http://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Google-Software-Engineer-San-Francisco-Salaries-EJI_IE9079.0,6_KO7,24_IL.25,38_IM759.htm http://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Google-Software-Engineer-San... http://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Facebook-Software-Engineer-Palo-Alto-Salaries-EJI_IE40772.0,8_KO9,26_IL.27,36_IC1147434.htm http://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Facebook-Software-Engineer-P... http://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Microsoft-Software-Development-Engineer-Seattle-Salaries-EJI_IE1651.0,9_KO10,39_IL.40,47_IM781.htm http://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Microsoft-Software-Developme...
- groby_b 15y ago
  Seconded. $200k _is_ possible if you factor in all bonuses, but even then it's not an easy gig to land. Not even for brilliant programmers right in Silly Valley. I'd like to see a pointer to those opportunities...
  - tsotha 15y ago
    I doubt the best salaries are in the valley. Too many people still trying to get rich off of stock options. If I were going to try to maximize my base salary I'd move to NYC and work for a hedge fund.
- stofu 15y ago
  Outside the US you can easily make 200k USD. 160k CHF in 2000 = 88 USD 160k CHF today = 200k USD 160k CHF after US defaults = ??? http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=CHFUSD=X&t=5y http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=CHFUSD=X&t=5y Demand that you get paid in bullion today!!

by saturn 15y ago

rdouble 15y ago

Even if you shine you don't make as much as a general physician, and you'll never make as much as a dermatologist. If you want to get rich as a programmer you have to attach yourself to a liquidity event or run your own business.

saturn 15y ago
Isn't it the case that if you want to get rich as a GP or specialist you have to start your own business, too? Also known as a practise? It is known that you'll never get rich working for someone else, but that applies to all trades and I don't see any reason why starting one as a programmer is dramatically different from starting one as a GP, or a plumber, or any other kind of highly skilled and valuable trade.
- rdouble 15y ago
  It depends on what you mean by rich. If you want beaucoup dollars (millions) it does help to own the cardiology clinic. However, my dad hires physicians for a rural health care system. A cardiologist in this area can get paid a salary of $350,000 per year, guaranteed three year contract. This is in the middle of nowhere, where a nice house can cost $100K and a king's mansion costs about $400K. That is "rich" by most of the world's standards. The option to throw a dart at a map, move there, and make a $300K+ a year without running a business is simply not available to programmers (or any other profession.)
  - saturn 15y ago
    Bloody hell. I guess I didn't realise they could make quite that much. Yep, that outpays all but the most exceptional programmers all right, I stand corrected.
  - psykotic 15y ago
    Cardiologists are in the upper salary echelons of physicians. If you're a family physician or a pediatrician you probably won't make more than $200,000 per year, which isn't too far out of line with what some programmers make.
    - rdouble 15y ago
      Right, but to make $200K a year as a programmer you have to work at Goldman Sachs or have spent the last 8 years moving up the ranks at VM Ware or be Mark Zuckerburg's college friend. To make $200K a year as a GP you can live anywhere in the USA you want and work part time (which is what my father does).
      - psykotic 15y ago
        To make that $200,000 you also have to pour an ungodly amount of time, effort and money into the education system, etc. Once you factor in all the relevant differences the gap is a lot smaller than it appears at first. There are many programmers who earn that kind of salary and don't fit your description of being in finance or climbing the managerial ladder for years on end.
        rdouble 15y ago
        There are many programmers who earn that kind of salary and don't fit your description of being in finance or climbing the managerial ladder for years on end. Who are they and where do they work? I am looking for a job.
        psykotic 15y ago
        Find product companies where top-percentile individual contributors can make a huge difference to the company's bottom line and are renumerated accordingly.
- cma 15y ago
  "or specialist you have to start your own business, too? Also known as a practise?" The number of practicing dermatologiests strictly limited to an amount determined by a council of dermatologists via the AMA. Programmers have nothing remotely similar.
  - gnaritas 15y ago
    This applies to all doctors, when you can artificially limit your supply, of course salaries are high, you make sure of it. If everyone who was qualified to be a doctor -- i.e. residents who should already be but don't have that magic piece of paper --, was made a doctor automatically after X years of residency, wages would be no higher than programmers.

a3camero 15y ago

Registered nurses at Ontario's public hospitals can make $100k+. http://www.fin.gov.on.ca/en/publications/salarydisclosure/2011/hospit11.html http://www.fin.gov.on.ca/en/publications/salarydisclosure/20.... Paramedics can make $125k+. http://www.fin.gov.on.ca/en/publications/salarydisclosure/2011/otherp11.html http://www.fin.gov.on.ca/en/publications/salarydisclosure/20... Doctors can make $200k+. See both of previously mentioned lists.

Lambent_Cactus 15y ago

Whoa, where are good programmers in hot markets making more than $200k? Is that counting stock compensation, or actual salary? I'm seeing sub-200k salaries for Google, Facebook, and Microsoft. http://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Google-Software-Engineer-San-Francisco-Salaries-EJI_IE9079.0,6_KO7,24_IL.25,38_IM759.htm http://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Google-Software-Engineer-San... http://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Facebook-Software-Engineer-Palo-Alto-Salaries-EJI_IE40772.0,8_KO9,26_IL.27,36_IC1147434.htm http://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Facebook-Software-Engineer-P... http://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Microsoft-Software-Development-Engineer-Seattle-Salaries-EJI_IE1651.0,9_KO10,39_IL.40,47_IM781.htm http://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Microsoft-Software-Developme...

groby_b 15y ago
Seconded. $200k _is_ possible if you factor in all bonuses, but even then it's not an easy gig to land. Not even for brilliant programmers right in Silly Valley. I'd like to see a pointer to those opportunities...
- tsotha 15y ago
  I doubt the best salaries are in the valley. Too many people still trying to get rich off of stock options. If I were going to try to maximize my base salary I'd move to NYC and work for a hedge fund.
stofu 15y ago
Outside the US you can easily make 200k USD. 160k CHF in 2000 = 88 USD 160k CHF today = 200k USD 160k CHF after US defaults = ??? http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=CHFUSD=X&t=5y http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=CHFUSD=X&t=5y Demand that you get paid in bullion today!!