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> Exceptional Performance for Creators The writing has been on the wall for a while in regards to Apple. Last time I suggested this topic it was down voted hea

by wil421 5y ago

> Exceptional Performance for Creators The writing has been on the wall for a while in regards to Apple. Last time I suggested this topic it was down voted heavily. Apple’s Pro lineup, from laptops to desktops, has been catered toward creative types not developers for a while. They have the best hardware in the and that’s why we want them. Apple only cares about developers who are developing apps for their platforms they do not care about developers using their products for other development. It’s not their focus.

dathinab 5y ago
> Apple only cares about developers who are developing apps for their platforms IDK, it often feels like they don't care much about them either. I mean you know because of the users they are kinda forced to feed up with apple anyway even if they don't like it. I mean I work for a company developing a App (with web version) and if there is a target specific problem it's most times Apple: - The first version(s) of our web version won't support Safari as it's technically simple impossible. - We currently have to live with some dev annoyances for all targets due too apple taking to long to update their software stack (XCode/LLVM). - The fact that (in difference to android) you can't just simply emulate iOS or install Safari on Linux/Windows can make testing harder (on CI we have do have Mac/iOs tests, so it's only harder instead of impossible). - Even just some ad-hoc scripts around the dev workflow ran into problems because OS X lacking behind years (should we say over a decade by now?) when it comes to updating basic CLI/shell tools. - Compared to windows documentation of some (especially new) things can be quite crappy in my experience. - Long update cycles can mean you have to wait forever for bug fixes. - ... It often feels that when adding support for Windows/Linux/Android to a Linux/Windows/Android program written mostly with cross platform tooling would add 10% workload adding Apple support doubles the workload, or might not even be possible. Oh and non of the problems we ran into had anything to do with privacy...
pjmlp 5y ago
I am confused, so Apple cares about developers or not?
- wil421 5y ago
  Apple cares about developers making MacOS and iOS apps only enough to make it worth developing for their platforms. They don’t care enough about software developers making other software on their platform. Look at what Lenovo and Dell (XPS) offer, developer specific models. Pro to Apple means creative types, Music, Photography, Video editing, and other content creation. Microsoft has made a ton of nice cross platform development tools in recent years such as Visual Studio and Visual Studio Code. I’m sure Xcode could be used for non Mac/iOS stuff but IMHO their are much better tools.
  - pjmlp 5y ago
    So they care about developers after all. Last time I checked the dictionary, developers wasn't a synonym for either UNIX or cross platform tooling. Software for creative types doesn't get synthetized out of thin air.
    - wil421 5y ago
      You can play word games if you want to and I wasn’t as clear as I could’ve been in my ordinal post. Yes Apple only cares enough about developers to keep them developing for iOS and MacOS. Just look at the backlash from smaller dev shops about MacOS code signing. Also look at some of the crazy Mac Mini setups use to deploy complex iOS/MacOS builds. Mac Stadium is filling a Mac “server” gap that other developers could hardly care about when developing for Android or Windows. Look how stale some of the packages MacOS bundles by default are like Python. Even Homebrew fills a gap that pretty much every other Unix based OS has; apt, yum, and pkg are a few examples.
      - pjmlp 5y ago
        Those that equate developer with UNIX and cross platform are the ones playing word games. Crazy Mac Mini setups are not required to develop for iOS/MacOS, unless one is trying to develop like on UNIX. Homebrew is for those that buy Apple hardware instead of giving money to GNU/Linux OEMs, macOS is a certified UNIX and doesn't need it at all. I am yet to install it, after all these years. Developer, "a person or a company that designs and creates new products", as per Oxford dictionary, https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/english/developer https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/englis...

by wil421 5y ago

dathinab 5y ago

> Apple only cares about developers who are developing apps for their platforms IDK, it often feels like they don't care much about them either. I mean you know because of the users they are kinda forced to feed up with apple anyway even if they don't like it. I mean I work for a company developing a App (with web version) and if there is a target specific problem it's most times Apple: - The first version(s) of our web version won't support Safari as it's technically simple impossible. - We currently have to live with some dev annoyances for all targets due too apple taking to long to update their software stack (XCode/LLVM). - The fact that (in difference to android) you can't just simply emulate iOS or install Safari on Linux/Windows can make testing harder (on CI we have do have Mac/iOs tests, so it's only harder instead of impossible). - Even just some ad-hoc scripts around the dev workflow ran into problems because OS X lacking behind years (should we say over a decade by now?) when it comes to updating basic CLI/shell tools. - Compared to windows documentation of some (especially new) things can be quite crappy in my experience. - Long update cycles can mean you have to wait forever for bug fixes. - ... It often feels that when adding support for Windows/Linux/Android to a Linux/Windows/Android program written mostly with cross platform tooling would add 10% workload adding Apple support doubles the workload, or might not even be possible. Oh and non of the problems we ran into had anything to do with privacy...

pjmlp 5y ago

I am confused, so Apple cares about developers or not?

wil421 5y ago
Apple cares about developers making MacOS and iOS apps only enough to make it worth developing for their platforms. They don’t care enough about software developers making other software on their platform. Look at what Lenovo and Dell (XPS) offer, developer specific models. Pro to Apple means creative types, Music, Photography, Video editing, and other content creation. Microsoft has made a ton of nice cross platform development tools in recent years such as Visual Studio and Visual Studio Code. I’m sure Xcode could be used for non Mac/iOS stuff but IMHO their are much better tools.
- pjmlp 5y ago
  So they care about developers after all. Last time I checked the dictionary, developers wasn't a synonym for either UNIX or cross platform tooling. Software for creative types doesn't get synthetized out of thin air.
  - wil421 5y ago
    You can play word games if you want to and I wasn’t as clear as I could’ve been in my ordinal post. Yes Apple only cares enough about developers to keep them developing for iOS and MacOS. Just look at the backlash from smaller dev shops about MacOS code signing. Also look at some of the crazy Mac Mini setups use to deploy complex iOS/MacOS builds. Mac Stadium is filling a Mac “server” gap that other developers could hardly care about when developing for Android or Windows. Look how stale some of the packages MacOS bundles by default are like Python. Even Homebrew fills a gap that pretty much every other Unix based OS has; apt, yum, and pkg are a few examples.
    - pjmlp 5y ago
      Those that equate developer with UNIX and cross platform are the ones playing word games. Crazy Mac Mini setups are not required to develop for iOS/MacOS, unless one is trying to develop like on UNIX. Homebrew is for those that buy Apple hardware instead of giving money to GNU/Linux OEMs, macOS is a certified UNIX and doesn't need it at all. I am yet to install it, after all these years. Developer, "a person or a company that designs and creates new products", as per Oxford dictionary, https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/english/developer https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/englis...