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Police routinely get drug sniffing dogs to give false positives so that they are allowed to search a vehicle. How do we know Apple or the FBI don’t do this? If

Police routinely get drug sniffing dogs to give false positives so that they are allowed to search a vehicle. How do we know Apple or the FBI don’t do this? If they want to search someone’s phone all they need to do is enter a hash of a photo they know is on the targets phone and voila, instant access. Also, how is this not a violation of the 14th amendment? I know Apple isn’t part of the government but they are basically acting as a defacto agent of the police by scanning for crimes. Using child porn as a completely transparent excuse to start scanning all our material for anything they want makes me very angry.

anonuser123456 5y ago
> How do we know Apple or the FBI don’t do this? Because it requires Apple and law enforcement, two separate organizations, to collude against you. The false positive would have to be affirmed to a court and entered into evidence. If the false positive we’re found to not match the true image by the court, any warrant etc. would be found invalid and the fruit of any search etc would be invalid as well. Apple is a private company. By agreeing to use iCloud photos you agree to their terms, this no 14th amendment violation.
- decebalus1 5y ago
  > Because it requires Apple and law enforcement, two separate organizations, to collude against you. Does it really? As I understand it, the thing is pretty one-sided. Who manages and governs the collection of 'hashes'? If it's law enforcement there's no collusion needed. Also, someone can just text you such a photo, or some 0-day exploiting malware (of which governments have a bunch) would plant one on your phone. > The false positive would have to be affirmed to a court and entered into evidence. If the false positive we’re found to not match the true image by the court, any warrant etc. would be found invalid and the fruit of any search etc would be invalid as well. All of this would happen after you're arrested, labeled a pedo and have your life turned upside down. All of which can be used to coerce a suspect into becoming an informant, plead guilty to some unrelated charge or whatever. This type of thing opens the door to a whole new world of abuse.
- zionic 5y ago
  Wow, you have a lot of faith in our legal system that is >90% plea deals.
  - anonuser123456 5y ago
    I do not have faith in our legal system. I have faith that, if Apple wanted to build a system to help frame its users, it could do so at anytime and it certainly wouldn't advertise it. LE only gets involved when Apple makes a determination that 1) you have a high number of hash collisions for exploitative material and 2) those images correspond to actual exploitative material. So if you are innocent, Apple would have to make the decision to screw you over and frame you. And... they would have to manufacture evidence against you since investigators need actual evidence to get warrants. Hash collisions are not evidence. They can do this today if they want. Apple can simply add illegal content to your iCloud drive and then report you to LE. But they don't seem to be doing that.
    - Cipater 5y ago
      Did Apple advertise this feature or was it leaked?
rajacombinator 5y ago
> How do we know Apple or the FBI don’t do this? You can almost certainly know that they will do this. Or just text the target a bad photo.

anonuser123456 5y ago

> How do we know Apple or the FBI don’t do this? Because it requires Apple and law enforcement, two separate organizations, to collude against you. The false positive would have to be affirmed to a court and entered into evidence. If the false positive we’re found to not match the true image by the court, any warrant etc. would be found invalid and the fruit of any search etc would be invalid as well. Apple is a private company. By agreeing to use iCloud photos you agree to their terms, this no 14th amendment violation.

decebalus1 5y ago
> Because it requires Apple and law enforcement, two separate organizations, to collude against you. Does it really? As I understand it, the thing is pretty one-sided. Who manages and governs the collection of 'hashes'? If it's law enforcement there's no collusion needed. Also, someone can just text you such a photo, or some 0-day exploiting malware (of which governments have a bunch) would plant one on your phone. > The false positive would have to be affirmed to a court and entered into evidence. If the false positive we’re found to not match the true image by the court, any warrant etc. would be found invalid and the fruit of any search etc would be invalid as well. All of this would happen after you're arrested, labeled a pedo and have your life turned upside down. All of which can be used to coerce a suspect into becoming an informant, plead guilty to some unrelated charge or whatever. This type of thing opens the door to a whole new world of abuse.
zionic 5y ago
Wow, you have a lot of faith in our legal system that is >90% plea deals.
- anonuser123456 5y ago
  I do not have faith in our legal system. I have faith that, if Apple wanted to build a system to help frame its users, it could do so at anytime and it certainly wouldn't advertise it. LE only gets involved when Apple makes a determination that 1) you have a high number of hash collisions for exploitative material and 2) those images correspond to actual exploitative material. So if you are innocent, Apple would have to make the decision to screw you over and frame you. And... they would have to manufacture evidence against you since investigators need actual evidence to get warrants. Hash collisions are not evidence. They can do this today if they want. Apple can simply add illegal content to your iCloud drive and then report you to LE. But they don't seem to be doing that.
  - Cipater 5y ago
    Did Apple advertise this feature or was it leaked?

rajacombinator 5y ago

> How do we know Apple or the FBI don’t do this? You can almost certainly know that they will do this. Or just text the target a bad photo.