3 ms·

Hasn’t the concept of alphas been discredited/debunked by the originator of the concept? Or is that strictly for wolves?

Tiktaalik 5y ago
Maybe "alpha" wolves have been debunked, but there are lots of research that points to matriarchal animal clan organization in other species. Resident Orcas would be a notable example.
IanClarke 5y ago
The originator of the (generic) concept "alpha" (please let us know who this is / who you think this is) has discontinued the term "alpha" (quite an alpha-decision from him, I would say) due to new insights discovered when observing wolves. Alpha does not exist for wolves (presumably)... and in general. To extend just further (why not) the concept gets fully discontinued, due to public pressure, because everything is equal anyway.
- Slow_Hand 5y ago
  You had me until your last sentence. What do you mean that the term is being discontinued due to public pressure? Isn't it natural for concepts to go away if they're found to be inaccurate (ex: phlogiston)? I also don't understand "everything is equal anyway". Could you elaborate? Since you mention the term in relationship to the public, I actually think that "alpha" as a term to describe someone who is dominant has been doing just fine as a societal meme, despite it being used less among biologists/whomever. In this sense it doesn't seem to be going away at all.
  - IanClarke 5y ago
    I am being ironic (which is not allowed here, actually) and I am mocking the SJW an PC pressure, which very few but loud proponents shout out on the internet, mainly social media, today. Wishing away things, like not only the concepts, but also the words. But that won't happen and we see an alpha leader / beneficent dictator (for life) rise again (because it just works so well): Elon Musk.
IntrepidWorm 5y ago
The concept of alpha, beta, etc in wolves was observed in captivity, and then incorrectly extrapolated to describe wild populations. Now science is finding that if you put a social species in a captive environment with unfamiliar stressors and dissolve the existing natural social groups that would have existed freely, unnatural social hierarchies develop to fill the gap.

Tiktaalik 5y ago

Maybe "alpha" wolves have been debunked, but there are lots of research that points to matriarchal animal clan organization in other species. Resident Orcas would be a notable example.

IanClarke 5y ago

The originator of the (generic) concept "alpha" (please let us know who this is / who you think this is) has discontinued the term "alpha" (quite an alpha-decision from him, I would say) due to new insights discovered when observing wolves. Alpha does not exist for wolves (presumably)... and in general. To extend just further (why not) the concept gets fully discontinued, due to public pressure, because everything is equal anyway.

Slow_Hand 5y ago
You had me until your last sentence. What do you mean that the term is being discontinued due to public pressure? Isn't it natural for concepts to go away if they're found to be inaccurate (ex: phlogiston)? I also don't understand "everything is equal anyway". Could you elaborate? Since you mention the term in relationship to the public, I actually think that "alpha" as a term to describe someone who is dominant has been doing just fine as a societal meme, despite it being used less among biologists/whomever. In this sense it doesn't seem to be going away at all.
- IanClarke 5y ago
  I am being ironic (which is not allowed here, actually) and I am mocking the SJW an PC pressure, which very few but loud proponents shout out on the internet, mainly social media, today. Wishing away things, like not only the concepts, but also the words. But that won't happen and we see an alpha leader / beneficent dictator (for life) rise again (because it just works so well): Elon Musk.

IntrepidWorm 5y ago

The concept of alpha, beta, etc in wolves was observed in captivity, and then incorrectly extrapolated to describe wild populations. Now science is finding that if you put a social species in a captive environment with unfamiliar stressors and dissolve the existing natural social groups that would have existed freely, unnatural social hierarchies develop to fill the gap.