9 ms·

Ask Patrick McKenzie (patio11) anything

154 points by jroes 15y ago

rmason 15y ago
I see they asked you about writing a book. I've been waiting for you to write the definitive book on SEO. Have you thought about bypassing a publisher and just producing a PDF and selling it directly? Then the only cost you'd have would to pay for a good editor and the rest would be profit. I'd gladly pay $50 to learn everything you know about SEO. I'd bet you could sell a couple thousand copies on HN alone. Would that be enough money for it to be worth your while?
- statictype 15y ago
  I'd gladly pay $50 to learn everything you know about SEO I would too. The problem is, there are people that will gladly pay 500x that amount for some of what he knows about SEO.
  - sp332 15y ago
    Sure, but if 500x more people would pay $50 than $(50x500)... :)
    - tedunangst 15y ago
      Private presentations and consulting work don't show up on bittorrent as quickly as downloadable PDFs.
      - rmason 15y ago
        Actually if you use software out there that takes the name you use on the credit card to buy the book and puts it on every single page of the PDF it has been proven to be a pretty good deterrent for the bit torrent problem.
        sp332 15y ago
        Too easy to edit out. Even a little sed could do it.
        iamscanner 15y ago
        This actually pisses me off, a lot. I don't put my ebooks up on torrenting sites or distribute them - but seeing my own email address show up on every page of my ebook means that I'm not going to buy from you again, ever.
        rkudeshi 15y ago
        Really? I completely disagree. I think it's a perfectly good deterrent for most people without adding on annoying DRM or anything else that actually impedes the reading experience. (By the way, you do know that Apple silently embeds your name and email in every DRM-free music file you buy from iTunes, right?)
        iamscanner 15y ago
        I do - but having my email embedded into a part of the file that I'm not going to see while I'm regularly using the file isn't a problem. I'm not distributing, and I don't mind that the file's identified to me. Having my email on every single page of the ebook I'm reading is a waste of space that only serves to frustrate me - why is my email there? How does having my email there improve the reading experience? It doesn't. It might not be as intrusive as annoying DRM, but it still makes reading my ebooks frustrating.
        evilduck 15y ago
        To me, there's a distinctive difference between adding a non-audible watermark to a audio file vs. watermarking text with text. I can listen to purchased iTunes music all day long and never even be aware of the watermarking existing, but I can't look at a single page of my [one and only] Packt Publishing ebook without their giant logo, my name, date of purchase and my address being displayed in the footer. If they wanted to watermark my info into the file to prevent file sharing, that's fine. Printed on every page? Obnoxious. It's another case of legitimate purchases having a disincentive that piracy doesn't. I bought the book, I know I bought the book, I don't need to be reminded 272 times in the process of consuming it.
  - rmason 15y ago
    Yet some of the most successful consultants have written books on the subject of their expertise. Somehow I don't think a book would discourage consulting clients. They want him looking at their situation and data with the benefit of everything he's learned since writing the book. If it gives him a higher profile it might actually result in more consulting gigs.
    - patio11 15y ago
      If it gives him a higher profile it might actually result in more consulting gigs. So if you take one gram of sodium and add it to a room filled with chlorine gas, you end up with a wee little pile of salt. Pumping more gas into the room does not increase the amount of salt you get, because the sodium is the limiting reagent. The limiting reagent in the number of consulting gigs I do every year is not the number of people who wish me to consult for them. It is closer to "How many weeks do I want to spend consulting?" That number is about ten to twelve weeks a year. I can fill my dance card at that number without needing to work very hard on getting the word out to new people. It might make sense if I wanted to scale a consulting business up by hiring employees, training them to be Mini Me, and then closing clients on consulting engagements with fulfillment to be done by the Mini Mes. That is an option. It isn't one which really fits in with my plans for life at the moment.
      - rmason 15y ago
        Wow! A simple no would have been fine.
        colinplamondon 15y ago
        His answer was interesting. A 'no' would not have been interesting. Thanks for playing.
      - tomjen3 15y ago
        If you have too many customers for the time available, why not increase the price? And about the book, you can write down a somewhat detailed point-by-point walkthrough and outsource the actual writing of the book. Then sell it as an info product on your website for, say, $150 -- it is easily worth the money, which you get to keep most of and you can A/B test it like crazy. Heck you could dictate the book while traveling and never have to write a line.
- jaredmck 15y ago
  in my opinion, SEO moves way too fast to make it worthwhile to write a book like this as a big one-time project. what's most interesting in SEO are the individual questions which come up along the way.
3am 15y ago
If you want to release an e-book with a little less overhead (and keep a large fraction of the proceeds) you could go with lulu.com or createspace.com
goblin89 15y ago
Oh, Patrick's presentation on marketing to minorities is simply too awesome. (Linked in the answer about the female market; just in case: http://businessofsoftware.org/video_10_pmckenzie.aspx http://businessofsoftware.org/video_10_pmckenzie.aspx)
Inebas 15y ago
For me, I can only sign in with my facebook or twitter account? Is that actually intended? I am uncomfortable using those two accounts to sign in. If I could sign in, the question I would ask patio11 is this: What advise would you give to someone who wants to run a solo software business so he/she can live anywhere and travel anytime?
- davidw 15y ago
  Have you read Rob Walling's "Start Small, Stay Small"? It's the best book of practical advice I've read on the subject in a while. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003YH9MMI?ie=UTF8&tag=dedasys-20&linkCode=shr&camp=213733&creative=393177 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003YH9MMI?ie=UTF8&tag=...
  - Inebas 15y ago
    Thanks much!
  - patio11 15y ago
    n.b. I upvoted that recommendation and am quoted on the cover of the book as saying something like "This is the book I wish I had when I started my business."
  - getsat 15y ago
    Dude, disclose affiliate links on HN please.
    - davidw 15y ago
      Dude, I certainly don't participate here to get rich off of affiliate links, and am not going to foist crap off on people to make a quick buck (my reputation is more important than that), but I'm certainly not going to disdain a few dollars for more books to read. If you don't believe in making money, perhaps this isn't the site for you.
      - getsat 15y ago
kloncks 15y ago
His answer for why he lives in Ogaki is amazing. Excerpt: By total accident, that job was in Ogaki. I'm not much of a poet but I would write love sonnets for this town. I love the air, I love the water, I love my friends, I love my community, I love my little church, I love the little sushi shop I've been going to for seven years where everybody knows my name, and I love my girlfriend. Tokyo is a nice place. New York is a nice place. Chicago is a nice place. But I want to live in Ogaki.
- shazow 15y ago
  Also this part: I live in Ogaki. Ogaki is in Japan. If Ogaki were in Kansas, I would live in Kansas.
losvedir 15y ago
I'm 29 today. Ah, Happy Birthday then! Thanks for all the insights you share on HN and your blog.
bh42222 15y ago
I used to poor, like seriously, food was an issue, poor. Both of my parents and other close relatives started many businesses. They all failed. They are all intelligent people but they all suck, and I mean SUCK at running/growing a business. I'm a pessimist. I have zero risk appetite, and I mean 0, zip, zilch, no thank you. And as an experienced software engineer, I make a quite a bit of money..... ....but darn it, Patrick's going to push me into staying up late, starting one side business after another, until one of them catches on, and I can quit my day job. And I've never even met the guy! Thanks Patrick!
- patio11 15y ago
  You're welcome, and thank you. That kind of feedback makes me very, very happy.
  - pchristensen 15y ago
    In that case, I'll heap some more on. I've been prevented from doing anything meaningful on a startup of my own for ~5 years, primarily because I was intimidated by the big picture of how much went into making a "real business". But in that same time frame (and in front of my over HN-ed eyes), Patrick has done great things and inspired me to refocus on small, incremental progress that adds up over time. Now I make sure I don't let a single week go by without doing something to improve my technical and business situation. Patrick is inspiring because he seems like so much more of a relatable Everyman that more developers can relate to. Plus he's a super nice guy!
    - prawn 15y ago
      What I like is that, even more so in the past, the financial figures are just so small in comparison to what we normally read. So many HN stories are about billion dollar valuations and million dollar investments, but with Patrick we see $30k presented in epic detail and with pride because for a humble side project I imagine it's been quite a journey. (I have a side project too that grew from a bit of mucking around to enough passive income that I could entertain a modest retirement, so I know where he's coming from.)
jcampbell1 15y ago
> If we stopped onanastically solving the non-existent problems of poor white techy twenty-somethings and started producing actual value, nobody would say word one about prices. I spent a few minutes trying to figure out what onanastically means. I was pleasantly surprised to learn it means "in a masturbatory manner", though I think it is spelled onanistically.
freshrap6 15y ago
patio11 Thank you for your all your advice and insight, it is truly motivational. Have you always been so cheerful or is it a product of your environment in Ogaki, or maybe even your success?
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
damncabbage 15y ago
Is there some ridiculous character limit for questions on anyasq.com? Most appear to be squashed, truncated or generally just tweet-like in appearance; for example: How do you create niche when you are entering a crowded market like travel..what would u hv done if thr ws bingo cc alre You've consulted with FogCreek and Matasano, some heavies(literally and figuratively).What was your gauge for success?
joss82 15y ago
"It is a moral imperative that any job which CAN be done by a computer SHOULD be done by a computer, because the alternative is a waste of an actual human's life. We used to have clerks whose only job was to be MS Excel's summation function. Hour by hour, day by day, they summed columns of numbers. After Excel exists, the existence of that job is a sin: hour by hour, day by day, they are wasting their lives doing something when they could be doing something more important, more worthy of their talents, which uniquely added value to the world." This is so true. Does that mean that unemployment is not so bad after all?
- relix 15y ago
  I think it has little to do with unemployment on the long term. Humanity has been "automating" jobs since the invention of the steam machine. Some might say even further: since the invention of the horse and carriage, since the invention of the wheel. If you look at the amount of automation we've got going on compared to 50 years ago, 10% unemployment is surprisingly low. Apparently, our skill in automation is only surpassed by our skill in finding new problems.
- Cushman 15y ago
  Rationally speaking, sure. If we replace 10% of jobs with computers running at 10% of the cost, that should mean that 9% of the workforce can now sit at home for all the economy cares. The fact that it doesn't shake out this way in real life is quite straightforward to explain.
sourc3 15y ago
One thing that surprised me in the interview was the fact that Patrick went with a sole-proprietorship model. When I started my B2B service as a side project, I went crazy looking at all the possible angles (a business suing you for a bug causing them loss of revenue, not being able to have a merchant account without a proper LLC etc) and back then it made a lot of sense to stick with the LLC model to create that shield in case something happened. Heck, one lawyer I consulted with even suggested I buy insurance. Either, I have too much to loose and I am not a risk taker or there is something wrong with the advice I have paid for/read online :) But the lesson is learned, from this point on, I will go with a sole-proprietorship model and avoid paying over ~$1K for the LLC..
joeag 15y ago
Patrick- this part is especially interesting to me - "This might be shocking, but many of my software buddies do not have fully automated fulfillment. If you buy their software, they get an email, and then they have to do something to get you what you bought. This is insane in this day and age for commodity software purchases. BCC will automatically generate a Registration Key for you (for the downloadable version), and takes a variety of steps to automatically upgrade the software without the customer's interaction. If they ordered a CD, it uses an API at SwiftCD to arrange for that CD to be shipped without my involvement. Bookkeeping entries get made automatically. etc, etc " Although some of that process will be eliminated as more "app stores" proliferate, it's still a huge and "non-core" part of the process for most software application providers which should be outsourced, as credit card processing has become. I remember the days 5 or 6 years ago where you had to write your own payment gateway, etc, etc. If you are interested in reselling this as a package to startup software companies let me know, I would love to be involved, I think it fits a need.

154 points by jroes 15y ago

I see they asked you about writing a book. I've been waiting for you to write the definitive book on SEO. Have you thought about bypassing a publisher and just producing a PDF and selling it directly? Then the only cost you'd have would to pay for a good editor and the rest would be profit. I'd gladly pay $50 to learn everything you know about SEO. I'd bet you could sell a couple thousand copies on HN alone. Would that be enough money for it to be worth your while?

statictype 15y ago
I'd gladly pay $50 to learn everything you know about SEO I would too. The problem is, there are people that will gladly pay 500x that amount for some of what he knows about SEO.
- sp332 15y ago
  Sure, but if 500x more people would pay $50 than $(50x500)... :)
  - tedunangst 15y ago
    Private presentations and consulting work don't show up on bittorrent as quickly as downloadable PDFs.
    - rmason 15y ago
      Actually if you use software out there that takes the name you use on the credit card to buy the book and puts it on every single page of the PDF it has been proven to be a pretty good deterrent for the bit torrent problem.
      - sp332 15y ago
        Too easy to edit out. Even a little sed could do it.
      - iamscanner 15y ago
        This actually pisses me off, a lot. I don't put my ebooks up on torrenting sites or distribute them - but seeing my own email address show up on every page of my ebook means that I'm not going to buy from you again, ever.
        rkudeshi 15y ago
        Really? I completely disagree. I think it's a perfectly good deterrent for most people without adding on annoying DRM or anything else that actually impedes the reading experience. (By the way, you do know that Apple silently embeds your name and email in every DRM-free music file you buy from iTunes, right?)
        iamscanner 15y ago
        I do - but having my email embedded into a part of the file that I'm not going to see while I'm regularly using the file isn't a problem. I'm not distributing, and I don't mind that the file's identified to me. Having my email on every single page of the ebook I'm reading is a waste of space that only serves to frustrate me - why is my email there? How does having my email there improve the reading experience? It doesn't. It might not be as intrusive as annoying DRM, but it still makes reading my ebooks frustrating.
        evilduck 15y ago
        To me, there's a distinctive difference between adding a non-audible watermark to a audio file vs. watermarking text with text. I can listen to purchased iTunes music all day long and never even be aware of the watermarking existing, but I can't look at a single page of my [one and only] Packt Publishing ebook without their giant logo, my name, date of purchase and my address being displayed in the footer. If they wanted to watermark my info into the file to prevent file sharing, that's fine. Printed on every page? Obnoxious. It's another case of legitimate purchases having a disincentive that piracy doesn't. I bought the book, I know I bought the book, I don't need to be reminded 272 times in the process of consuming it.
- rmason 15y ago
  Yet some of the most successful consultants have written books on the subject of their expertise. Somehow I don't think a book would discourage consulting clients. They want him looking at their situation and data with the benefit of everything he's learned since writing the book. If it gives him a higher profile it might actually result in more consulting gigs.
  - patio11 15y ago
    If it gives him a higher profile it might actually result in more consulting gigs. So if you take one gram of sodium and add it to a room filled with chlorine gas, you end up with a wee little pile of salt. Pumping more gas into the room does not increase the amount of salt you get, because the sodium is the limiting reagent. The limiting reagent in the number of consulting gigs I do every year is not the number of people who wish me to consult for them. It is closer to "How many weeks do I want to spend consulting?" That number is about ten to twelve weeks a year. I can fill my dance card at that number without needing to work very hard on getting the word out to new people. It might make sense if I wanted to scale a consulting business up by hiring employees, training them to be Mini Me, and then closing clients on consulting engagements with fulfillment to be done by the Mini Mes. That is an option. It isn't one which really fits in with my plans for life at the moment.
    - rmason 15y ago
      Wow! A simple no would have been fine.
      - colinplamondon 15y ago
        His answer was interesting. A 'no' would not have been interesting. Thanks for playing.
    - tomjen3 15y ago
      If you have too many customers for the time available, why not increase the price? And about the book, you can write down a somewhat detailed point-by-point walkthrough and outsource the actual writing of the book. Then sell it as an info product on your website for, say, $150 -- it is easily worth the money, which you get to keep most of and you can A/B test it like crazy. Heck you could dictate the book while traveling and never have to write a line.
jaredmck 15y ago
in my opinion, SEO moves way too fast to make it worthwhile to write a book like this as a big one-time project. what's most interesting in SEO are the individual questions which come up along the way.

3am 15y ago

If you want to release an e-book with a little less overhead (and keep a large fraction of the proceeds) you could go with lulu.com or createspace.com

goblin89 15y ago

Oh, Patrick's presentation on marketing to minorities is simply too awesome. (Linked in the answer about the female market; just in case: http://businessofsoftware.org/video_10_pmckenzie.aspx http://businessofsoftware.org/video_10_pmckenzie.aspx)

Inebas 15y ago

For me, I can only sign in with my facebook or twitter account? Is that actually intended? I am uncomfortable using those two accounts to sign in. If I could sign in, the question I would ask patio11 is this: What advise would you give to someone who wants to run a solo software business so he/she can live anywhere and travel anytime?

davidw 15y ago
Have you read Rob Walling's "Start Small, Stay Small"? It's the best book of practical advice I've read on the subject in a while. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003YH9MMI?ie=UTF8&tag=dedasys-20&linkCode=shr&camp=213733&creative=393177 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003YH9MMI?ie=UTF8&tag=...
- Inebas 15y ago
  Thanks much!
- patio11 15y ago
  n.b. I upvoted that recommendation and am quoted on the cover of the book as saying something like "This is the book I wish I had when I started my business."
- getsat 15y ago
  Dude, disclose affiliate links on HN please.
  - davidw 15y ago
    Dude, I certainly don't participate here to get rich off of affiliate links, and am not going to foist crap off on people to make a quick buck (my reputation is more important than that), but I'm certainly not going to disdain a few dollars for more books to read. If you don't believe in making money, perhaps this isn't the site for you.
    - getsat 15y ago

kloncks 15y ago

His answer for why he lives in Ogaki is amazing. Excerpt: By total accident, that job was in Ogaki. I'm not much of a poet but I would write love sonnets for this town. I love the air, I love the water, I love my friends, I love my community, I love my little church, I love the little sushi shop I've been going to for seven years where everybody knows my name, and I love my girlfriend. Tokyo is a nice place. New York is a nice place. Chicago is a nice place. But I want to live in Ogaki.

shazow 15y ago
Also this part: I live in Ogaki. Ogaki is in Japan. If Ogaki were in Kansas, I would live in Kansas.

losvedir 15y ago

I'm 29 today. Ah, Happy Birthday then! Thanks for all the insights you share on HN and your blog.

bh42222 15y ago

I used to poor, like seriously, food was an issue, poor. Both of my parents and other close relatives started many businesses. They all failed. They are all intelligent people but they all suck, and I mean SUCK at running/growing a business. I'm a pessimist. I have zero risk appetite, and I mean 0, zip, zilch, no thank you. And as an experienced software engineer, I make a quite a bit of money..... ....but darn it, Patrick's going to push me into staying up late, starting one side business after another, until one of them catches on, and I can quit my day job. And I've never even met the guy! Thanks Patrick!

patio11 15y ago
You're welcome, and thank you. That kind of feedback makes me very, very happy.
- pchristensen 15y ago
  In that case, I'll heap some more on. I've been prevented from doing anything meaningful on a startup of my own for ~5 years, primarily because I was intimidated by the big picture of how much went into making a "real business". But in that same time frame (and in front of my over HN-ed eyes), Patrick has done great things and inspired me to refocus on small, incremental progress that adds up over time. Now I make sure I don't let a single week go by without doing something to improve my technical and business situation. Patrick is inspiring because he seems like so much more of a relatable Everyman that more developers can relate to. Plus he's a super nice guy!
  - prawn 15y ago
    What I like is that, even more so in the past, the financial figures are just so small in comparison to what we normally read. So many HN stories are about billion dollar valuations and million dollar investments, but with Patrick we see $30k presented in epic detail and with pride because for a humble side project I imagine it's been quite a journey. (I have a side project too that grew from a bit of mucking around to enough passive income that I could entertain a modest retirement, so I know where he's coming from.)

jcampbell1 15y ago

> If we stopped onanastically solving the non-existent problems of poor white techy twenty-somethings and started producing actual value, nobody would say word one about prices. I spent a few minutes trying to figure out what onanastically means. I was pleasantly surprised to learn it means "in a masturbatory manner", though I think it is spelled onanistically.

freshrap6 15y ago

patio11 Thank you for your all your advice and insight, it is truly motivational. Have you always been so cheerful or is it a product of your environment in Ogaki, or maybe even your success?

deleted 15y ago

[deleted]

damncabbage 15y ago

Is there some ridiculous character limit for questions on anyasq.com? Most appear to be squashed, truncated or generally just tweet-like in appearance; for example: How do you create niche when you are entering a crowded market like travel..what would u hv done if thr ws bingo cc alre You've consulted with FogCreek and Matasano, some heavies(literally and figuratively).What was your gauge for success?

joss82 15y ago

"It is a moral imperative that any job which CAN be done by a computer SHOULD be done by a computer, because the alternative is a waste of an actual human's life. We used to have clerks whose only job was to be MS Excel's summation function. Hour by hour, day by day, they summed columns of numbers. After Excel exists, the existence of that job is a sin: hour by hour, day by day, they are wasting their lives doing something when they could be doing something more important, more worthy of their talents, which uniquely added value to the world." This is so true. Does that mean that unemployment is not so bad after all?

relix 15y ago
I think it has little to do with unemployment on the long term. Humanity has been "automating" jobs since the invention of the steam machine. Some might say even further: since the invention of the horse and carriage, since the invention of the wheel. If you look at the amount of automation we've got going on compared to 50 years ago, 10% unemployment is surprisingly low. Apparently, our skill in automation is only surpassed by our skill in finding new problems.
Cushman 15y ago
Rationally speaking, sure. If we replace 10% of jobs with computers running at 10% of the cost, that should mean that 9% of the workforce can now sit at home for all the economy cares. The fact that it doesn't shake out this way in real life is quite straightforward to explain.

sourc3 15y ago

One thing that surprised me in the interview was the fact that Patrick went with a sole-proprietorship model. When I started my B2B service as a side project, I went crazy looking at all the possible angles (a business suing you for a bug causing them loss of revenue, not being able to have a merchant account without a proper LLC etc) and back then it made a lot of sense to stick with the LLC model to create that shield in case something happened. Heck, one lawyer I consulted with even suggested I buy insurance. Either, I have too much to loose and I am not a risk taker or there is something wrong with the advice I have paid for/read online :) But the lesson is learned, from this point on, I will go with a sole-proprietorship model and avoid paying over ~$1K for the LLC..

joeag 15y ago

Patrick- this part is especially interesting to me - "This might be shocking, but many of my software buddies do not have fully automated fulfillment. If you buy their software, they get an email, and then they have to do something to get you what you bought. This is insane in this day and age for commodity software purchases. BCC will automatically generate a Registration Key for you (for the downloadable version), and takes a variety of steps to automatically upgrade the software without the customer's interaction. If they ordered a CD, it uses an API at SwiftCD to arrange for that CD to be shipped without my involvement. Bookkeeping entries get made automatically. etc, etc " Although some of that process will be eliminated as more "app stores" proliferate, it's still a huge and "non-core" part of the process for most software application providers which should be outsourced, as credit card processing has become. I remember the days 5 or 6 years ago where you had to write your own payment gateway, etc, etc. If you are interested in reselling this as a package to startup software companies let me know, I would love to be involved, I think it fits a need.